Dawn of War Codex

In response to DJ Raffa's great Slaanesh sub-commander proposal, I thought I'd gather some of my ideas for a fourth Chaos commander. I've been quietly hoping for fourth commanders since the Space Marines got the Brother-Captain and I saw it was possible.

Although a major undertaking, fourth commanders for some or all factions would generate great interest and freshen up the meta alot.

Slaanesh Champion

Speed: 5.5
Health: 650
Size: Small
Melee skill: 70

In a nutshell:
Mobile melee glass cannon with some mobility support and disruption, quite energy intensive.

Slaanesh Heretic Worship:
Grants +15% suppression resistance, +15% damage but -10% damage resistance to the Champion's infantry and daemons within range. Does not affect vehicles.

Shrine of Slaanesh:
Every 10s, a pulse is released in radius 15 that has a 50% chance of doing weapon_knockback to enemy infantry.
Worship effect: Pulse is every 5s.

Default:
40 DPS melee_pvp
13.29 piercing_pvp
Commander Passive:
Melee resistance aura
Long charge range (don't have specifics sorry!)
Commander Active ability:
Psychon: Increases the Champion's melee damage by 50%, but drains the Champion's energy and health (2% per second) while active. 50 energy initial cost. 30s cooldown.

GLOBALS

T1:
Harvest Soul
Cost: 75 Red
Target enemy squad loses all energy and their movement speed is reduced by 1 for 10s. Does not affect vehicles.
Cooldown: 60s

T2:
Machine Possesion
Cost 175 Red
All allied vehicles are granted +0.5 speed and take 25% less damage for 15s.
Cooldown: 60s

T2:
Pandemonium
Cost 175 Red
All of the Champion's units deal double melee damage for 10s and are immune to weapon knockback, but their ranged damage is reduced to nil. Does not affect the GUO.
Cooldown: 60s

T3:
Terminators

T3:
Empyreal Abyss

WARGEAR

WEAPONS:
Sword of Excess
Releases pleasure directly from the warp with each kill.
Cost: 125/25
50 DPS melee_pvp
13.29 piercing_pvp
Availability: T1

Grants passive:
On a melee kill, buffs surrounding allied infantry with +1 speed and +25% suppression resistance for 6s. Only affects the Champion's units and the Champion himself. Excess buff cannot occur more than once every 12s.

Axe of Madness
A deafening chainaxe possessed by a malicious daemon of Slaanesh.
Cost: 150/40
65 DPS melee_power_weapons_pvp
Grants a plasma pistol that slows enemy infantry's movement speed by 10% on hit, 7.82 DPS plasma_pvp
Availability: T2

Grants passive:
30% chance to inflict weapon_knockback on hit, 30% chance to inflict 30 melee_pvp damage to the Champion.

ARMOUR:
Violator Armour
Increases health and energy of the Champion and grants the Chosen ability.
Cost: 125/20
Grants +100 health
Grants +100 energy
Availability: T1

Grants ability:
Chosen
Target allied infantry unit has +0.5 speed for 20s but deals -50% ranged damage for the duration. 65 energy cost. 30s cooldown.

The Flawless Host
Increases health of the Champion and grants the Nocioception passive.
Cost: 180/50
Grants: +200 health
Availability: T2

Grants passive:
The Champion has a 25% chance to ignore incoming damage. On a melee kill, the Champion's speed is increased by +0.5 for 5s, stacks with Excess buff. Damage mitigation does not effect the DoT from Psychon.

ACCESSORIES:
Orb of Discord
Grants the Discord ability.
Cost: 130/30
Availability: T1

Grants ability:
Discord
Target a location within radius 15 to summon the Orb of Discord. The orb does weapon_knockback in radius 5 on arrival. For the next 10s, the Champion's infantry and daemons within radius 15 of the Orb have +25% melee damage and are immune to weapon knockback, but receive +10% damage from all sources. 60 energy cost. 40s cooldown. Buff does not affect the Champion himself.

Icon of Slaanesh
Removes the energy drain from Psychon and increases the speed of nearby units.
Cost: 150/35
Grants +50 energy
Availability: T2

Grants passive:
Every 20s, a wave of pleasure is released that buffs movement speed of the Champion's infantry and daemons within radius 15 by 0.5 for 5s. Affects the Champion, stacks with Excess buff and Flawless Host passive.

General playstyle:
Pick your fights carefully to get in amongst ranged units for quick kills using Psychon and get your on-kill effects. Support early heretics with buffs and added mobility.

T1 Scenario: Eldar

Tic/CSM/Tic opening, Eldar player has Howling Banshees.

First engagement goes well as you quickly tie up energy Dire Avengers with your Champion and use Psychon to take models off them, Banshees are focussed down by double heretics and CSM ranged fire. Enemy commander (Warlock) ties up CSM but you win the engagement.

Warlock purchases the Merciless Witchblade to keep melee pressure and energy denial up on the Champion.

You get the Sword of Excess for extra damage and mobility/suppression resistance buffs for your now double AC heretics.

Eldar player responds to your double heretics with double Shurikens.

The Champion can respond with Raptors for a heavy T1 to overwhelm the Eldar player, or use Orb of Discord and try to maneuvre the Champion close enough for the initial disruption and suppression resistance of the Orb on a Shuriken. Will be difficult to deal with two though and Raptors will probably be required. Heretic worship can be combined with Sword of Excess buff to make a single heretic squad difficult to suppress. Along with the Orb that may be enough for double shuri depending on micro.

With the double Shurikens and Fleetness Banshees the Champion is put under pressure with Psychon mis-use and forced off early a couple of times.

T2 Scenario: Eldar

Champion gets MoK CSM to exploit the Discord buff, but is met wiht an enemy Falcon.
After much pressure, the Champion gets Plague Marines and is able to pressure the Falcon well using the Plague Marines and Excess buff when possible. Champion must now be very aware with Exarch Fleetness Banshees around and choose fights very carefully. Heretics die in droves to the Falcon and the odd plasma grenade. Chaos player decides to keep a heretic squad back and worship to minimise bleed.

The double Shurikens continue to cause problems and the Champion purchases Bloodletters to counter. With Champion buffs and Slaanesh worship they are a formidable glass cannon and a Shuriken is destroyed.

Recognising the melee threat of the Chaos army, the Eldar player decides to go T3 for Fire Prisms.

T3 Scenario: Eldar

The first Fire Prism arrives as the Chaos player techs up later due to increased upkeep. The Warock's focus is now to tie up Plague Marines to prevent fire on his vehicles. Banshees are torn between focussing down the Champion and going head-to-head with the MoK CSM. Champion still goes after Dire Avengers and supports with Orb of Discord when he can. Banshees and CSM are both levelling nicely into Lv 3 and we see a Ethereal Slash/Providence Warlock to help against the melee forces but delaying the second Prism.

Lots of back and forth play against the melee, vehicles and Plague Marines until the second Prism arrives forcing the Champion to think about getting some hard ranged AV.

T1 Scenario: Space Marines

Tic/CSM/Raptors from the Champion who aims to put quick pressure on Tacs with the Raptors and chase down shotgun scouts with the Champion. The enemy Force Commander is a big nuisance against heretics and CSM early and purchases the power sword to help.

Champion purchases Violator Armour to buff AC Tics with Chosen. SM player respons with a second shotgun scout squad and ASM.

T2 Scenario: Space Marines

Force Commander saves for a Dreadnought after taking heavy losses from the Champion's Axe of Madness with some good Psychon usage and buffing himself with Chosen. The Dreadnought arrives and is able to kill the Champion in melee after tanking damage with ATSKNF Tacs.

Champion responds with a MoT Havoc but the ASM are able to shut it down before being forced off. CSM gets AC and EW to try and shoot-up Scouts which are proving a nuisance and one squads goes down. Heretics are lost to Hellfire Sternguard and the now AC Dreadnought.

Both players decide to hold out for T3

T3 Scenario: Space Marines

Both players go for Lightning Claw Terminators which leads to savage melee fights and commander losses on both sides. Champion gets more heretics for shrine and worship support and MoT CSM for DPS on the Terminators. FC responds with a Predator tank and the Champion is torn between Plague Marines and saving for a Phobos.

It's not a 4th commander for the Space Marines.
The GK faction borrowed a spot next to the Space Marines.
It could have easily been another race.


Pandemonium:
100%increase seems rather freaking high ^^
How bout we start with a 50% one?

The Flawless Host:
"The Champion has a 25% chance to ignore incoming damage."
Is this even possible? So it has 25% chance to negate a pdev shot or 1 bolt shot ... ? :p
Seems kinda weird. How about instead just give him a flat 10% dmg reduction?

For the rest it's looking pretty solid on paper imo ^^.

Dark Riku wrote:It's not a 4th commander for the Space Marines.
The GK faction borrowed a spot next to the Space Marines.
It could have easily been another race.


Pandemonium:
100%increase seems rather freaking high ^^
How bout we start with a 50% one?

The Flawless Host:
"The Champion has a 25% chance to ignore incoming damage."
Is this even possible? So it has 25% chance to negate a pdev shot or 1 bolt shot ... ? :p
Seems kinda weird. How about instead just give him a flat 10% dmg reduction?

For the rest it's looking pretty solid on paper imo ^^.

Even I need to agree on that 100% damage increase. Too damn high.

What I meant is that there is a fourth spot to use. The Brother-Captain just happens to change the roster also.

100% damage buff sounds high, but it's only melee damage and Catalyst does the same thing but to ALL damage with a different downside (losing HP). Catalyst also has two very powerful units that seem made for it (Genestealers with Adrenal Rush and Zoan with shield)

Maybe 200 red? Don't think the damage buff is too mental. +50% melee and 0 ranged damage seems a bit meh. I dunno though.

Thought the Flawless Host passive would be a bit more interesting than a small constant damage resistance, opens up more "OMG!" plays but also perhaps rage...

Catalyst is on 1 squad only though.
While this is on multiple squads...

Harvest Soul seems OP. Forget about getting ASMs or Catachans, or Banshees with Aspect... (or any other energy intensive squad) against Slaanesh Champion. Total energy drain is really debilitating. I could see 50 red for 50 energy along with debuffs, but total energy drain would be harsh. Forget the fact that I'm pretty sure it would affect commanders. Welp, forget about using Defend on FC, Heal on Apo, Farseer in general, Lord General Retinue upgrades...

Indrid wrote:In a nutshell:
Mobile melee glass cannon with some mobility support and disruption, quite energy intensive.

I would prefer a buffer/support commander (support in form of buffs, a bit disruption...) with very little offesive power by himself (through ranged/melee damage or though offensive abilities)

Indrid wrote:Shrine of Slaanesh:
Every 10s, a pulse is released in radius 15 that has a 50% chance of doing weapon_knockback to enemy infantry.
Worship effect: Pulse is every 5s.

I don't like at all the effect. And seriously, i don't find any use or situation which could fit. Even more: if the other Shrines (Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle) are best IMHO and even gives buffs and they are rarely seen, who is going to buy a Shrine which only effect is a 50% of knockback chance in a area around the Shrine? And more when any ranged squad even without AV or flamer could destroy it relatively quickly?

I have to admit i don't have a good idea about a Slaneesh shrine. Maybe the Shrine could shoot sonic projectiles which don't make a lot of damage (maybe 5 damage per model) but decreases the enemy ranged acuraccy squads by 5%. The debuff lasts 10 seconds and can stack 6 times (total of a 30% accuracy decreased). The sonic projectiles are shooted once every 6 seconds. If the Heretics workshipp the Shrine, the Shrine shoots every 3 seconds.

Indrid wrote:Default:
40 DPS melee_pvp
13.29 piercing_pvp

40 dps? Only 2.5 dps less than the Warboss? And a bit more than the FC? Have in mind that with his initial ability is going to do 60 dps. Too much for a initial melee commander, and more if is going to have a little more speed (5.5) than the other commanders. 35 dps or even a bit lower it's ok IMHO, and can raised with wargear.

Indrid wrote:Commander Active ability:
Psychon: Increases the Champion's melee damage by 50%, but drains the Champion's energy and health (2% per second) while active. 50 energy initial cost. 30s cooldown.

How it works? Consume 50 energy and lasts depending off the energy amount? Can you deactivate it?

Indrid wrote:GLOBALS

T1:
Harvest Soul
Cost: 75 Red
Target enemy squad loses all energy and their movement speed is reduced by 1. Does not affect vehicles.
Cooldown: 60s

Depending of the target, could be and awesome ability or a meh one. Could be awesome to use it on Avatar or GUO, to avoid the use of their abilities, or against a weirdboy to consume all his energy. It could be awesome to counter that Warlock or FC tanky builds.

At the first time i see it, i don't like very much. But now i think it could be a fantastic global.

Indrid wrote:T2:
Machine Possesion
Cost 175 Red
All allied vehicles are granted +0.5 speed and take 25% less damage for 15s.
Cooldown: 60s

I usually don't like this "affect all the allied units" buffs, because in 2vs2 and 3vs3 they are simply OP and in 1vs1 are good to meh. Also sometimes are really difficult to balance.

In this case: well, i would like to see it affect only a simply target (one vehicle), red cost reduced to 120 and maybe an buff increased, maybe the speed.

Indrid wrote:T2:
Pandemonium
Cost 175 Red
All of the Champion's units deal double melee damage for 10s and are immune to weapon knockback, but their ranged damage is reduced to nil. Does not affect the GUO.
Cooldown: 60s

I would change this global for another this:
Dark Kiss
Cost 200 red.
The selected squad receive the blessing of Slaneesh, which makes them inmortal: they still receive damage, but if one model is going to die, share the damage to the another squad members. They only start losing models if the total hp is reduced under the members squad model numbers:

For example: Dark Kiss on Raptors + AC. Total members: 4. They are inmortal until hp drops below 4 hp. If HP = 3, they lose a model. If HP = 2, they lose another model, if HP = 1, they lost another model. And of course, if HP <=0, the last member die and the squad die.

Duration 15 seconds. 90 seconds cooldown.

Indrid wrote:Axe of Madness
A deafening chainaxe possessed by a malicious daemon of Slaanesh.
Cost: 150/40
65 DPS melee_power_weapons_pvp
Grants a plasma pistol that slows enemy infantry's movement speed by 10% on hit, 7.82 DPS plasma_pvp
Availability: T2

Grants passive:
30% chance to inflict weapon_knockback on hit, 30% chance to inflict 30 melee_pvp damage to the Champion.

It's a very curious weapon. The auto-damage random could make this weapon very unreliable. In addition, it's a very expensive cost for the weapon stadistics, even with the 30% change of knockback.

Indrid wrote:ARMOUR:
Violator Armour
Increases health and energy of the Champion and grants the Chosen ability.
Cost: 125/20
Grants +100 health
Grants +100 energy
Availability: T1

Grants ability:
Chosen
Target allied infantry unit has +0.5 speed for 20s but deals -50% ranged damage for the duration. 65 energy cost. 30s cooldown.

Weak Fleet of foot ability? I don't dislike it.

Indrid wrote:The Flawless Host
Increases health of the Champion and grants the Nocioception passive.
Cost: 180/50
Grants: +200 health
Availability: T2

Grants passive:
The Champion has a 25% chance to ignore incoming damage. On a melee kill, the Champion's speed is increased by +0.5 for 5s, stacks with Excess buff. Damage mitigation does not effect the DoT from Psychon.

25% change to ignore incomming damage? Too much over or too much shitty, depending of your luck. :/

Indrid wrote:Icon of Slaanesh
Removes the health and energy drain from Psychon and increases the speed of nearby units.
Cost: 150/35
Grants +50 energy
Availability: T2

Grants passive:
Every 20s, a wave of pleasure is released that buffs movement speed of the Champion's infantry and daemons within radius 15 by 0.5 for 5s. Affects the Champion, stacks with Excess buff and Flawless Host passive.

Only thing: if this removes the health and energy drain, means that Psychon is going to last forever? Because you don't specify the Psychon duration. :/

Indrid wrote:General playstyle:
Pick your fights carefully to get in amongst ranged units for quick kills using Psychon and get your on-kill effects. Support early heretics with buffs and added mobility

In essence, i like how you make the Slaneesh commander. Maybe needs more different buffs instead of +damage done/taken and knockback ones.

EDIT: Launched to the Warp all the misundestanded opinions.

Dark Riku wrote:Catalyst is on 1 squad only though.
While this is on multiple squads...

Yeah but how many melee squads will you have realistically? AC Tics, MoK CSM +1 more maybe? Perhaps a Bloodcrusher too? Remember during that time your Havocs/ranged CSM/NM/PM and any tanks/ranged Dreads and even your Phobos are doing no DPS at all with their main weapons. Your opponent can also just retreat out if they are in a bad position when they see it.

@Codex it is perhaps a little harsh but only on very specific units. Could make it so that it does not affects comms though, and maybe 100 red. Wanted it to be strong as I feel the 50-75 red globals are somewhat underused apart from Webway Gates.

NOTE: When you said Champion's unit I understand ONLY the Aspiring Champion units, not the Aspiring Champion units + rest of the squad.

Literally no idea what this means.

Slaanesh worship

I wanted the "pleasure and pain" theme to come through, hence all the debilitating trade-offs.

Shrine of Slaanesh

It's to help the army against big melee blobs. Though it's a static counter, half of their units being knocked down every 5s should be pretty annoying, especially with multiple shrines and if you have other allied structures nearby.

40 dps? Only 2.5 dps less than the Warboss?

Yes, glass cannon. Does not have the disruption of Warboss or Warlock to start and only 700 HP with an ability that damages the Champion.

How it works? Consume 50 energy and lasts depending off the energy amount? Can you deactivate it?

Psychon: Consumes 50 energy and then drains your health and energy for as long as you keep it activated or you die. You can deactivate it whenver you like but then there's a 30s cooldown before you can activate it again.

Machine Possesion

The Mekboy global affects all allied vehicles iirc and boosts speed and DPS. 175 red is a lot.

I don't like at all. Essentially, only affect the Heretics, CSM and Raptors Aspiring Champion, isn't it?

Uhhh I think you're confused. By "Champion" I mean the Slaanesh Champion ie the commander this topic is about. ie YOUR units.

One problem: half of the Aspiring Champions comes in T2, when this weapon, without power_melee could be a bit obsolete.

You are confused again. Now I see what you were on about at the start.

In addition, it's a very expensive cost for the weapon stadistics, even with the 30% change of knockback.

Yes but you are forgetting Psychon adding 50% damage.

I like the change "buff for damage taken (pain) (which match with the Slaneesh fluff) but not the Aspiring Champion's focus.

Confused again. Champion's = YOURS.

Only thing: if this removes the health and energy drain, means that Psychon is going to last forever? Because you don't specify the Psychon duration. :/

Good point, it should just remove health drain not the energy drain.

Oh, what you mean Champion's units you are saying your OWN squads (saying that the buffs/effects don't affect allied units or allied Chaos units, only affect your OWN squads), not your squads WITH Aspiring Champion or only affects the Aspiring Champions of your own squads.

The problem of my mistaken is you said Champion's units, not Slaneesh Champion units.

Dark Gods, what a mess.

Sorry (twice in a day) for the misunderstanding.

Yes correct, only your own squads. Much like heretic worship only affects your own. I was too lazy to keep typing "Slaanesh" every time.

OK, here i come again... and without mistakes, i hope.

Indrid wrote:Slaanesh Heretic Worship:
I wanted the "pleasure and pain" theme to come through, hence all the debilitating trade-offs.

The problem is that pleasure and pain theme goes later than balance. I'm not saying your idea is bad, but i still prefer mine. Pain (they still receive the damage) and pleasure (they don't care about it, and here comes the +50% suppression resistance).

The problem of my idea is that don't affect daemons or vehicles, so it could have the same problem as Nurgle Workshipp ones.

Indrid wrote:Shrine of Slaanesh:
It's to help the army against big melee blobs. Though it's a static counter, half of their units being knocked down every 5s should be pretty annoying, especially with multiple shrines and if you have other allied structures nearby.

Yeah, it could be awesome but... it depends of your luck, because it's a 50% chance.

The main problem i see is the Slaneesh Shrines don't give anything except that knockback and it's too niche (only could be good against melee builds). On the other hand, Tzeentch ones shoots against ranged and melee squads and gives 10% damage resistance, Khorne ones gives +10% damage done and spawns Bloodletters, and the Nurgle one heals and let you reinforce.

Indrid wrote:Yes, glass cannon. Does not have the disruption of Warboss or Warlock to start and only 700 HP with an ability that damages the Champion.

The problem is you make with this decision even more powerfull the Chaos opening, which except massive failures can win almost against every race in the first battle.

Have in mind: in the first battle the Chaos player could have a 700 hp 60dps melee commander with 5.5 speed (difficult to kite him), two heretics squads, with great melee damage and Doomblast and a CSM squad with good ranged and melee damage. And this without mentioning the Slaneesh Workshipp. Yeah, it could be countered, but still a (even more) great opening.

Indrid wrote:Commander Active ability:
Psychon: Increases the Champion's melee damage by 50%, but drains the Champion's energy and health (2% per second) while active. 50 energy initial cost. 30s cooldown.

If i understood well:
Needs 50 energy of initial cost.
Consume 2% per second of energy and health (i suppose the 2% of the total health and energy.). This buff lasts 30 seconds, until your commander die or until you decide to turn it off.

I'm correct?

Well, i will prefer a smaller buff (25%-30%) with the same debuff and switchable. The % could be increased with wargear or with a bigger damage of the own wargear.

Indrid wrote:GLOBALS
T2:
Machine Possesion
Cost 175 Red
All allied vehicles are granted +0.5 speed and take 25% less damage for 15s.
Cooldown: 60s

The Mekboy global affects all allied vehicles iirc and boosts speed and DPS. 175 red is a lot.

Yeah, but the problem is that except the Battlewagon with some boyz inside, the ork vehicles are inferior (and cheaper!) than the other factions.

The Wartrukk die with some soft AV on the rear armour and only do a bit more damage than a SM Tactical squad single model.

The Deff Dread do awesome special attacks, but his standard attack it's only 60 Heavy Melee DPS. Even a ranged Dread (Chaos Vanilla or with MoT, SM Dread with
assault cannon...) do more melee damage than the Deff dread.

The Loota Tank have less dps than any other Tank (Chaos Predator, SM Predator...) But well, at least have an ability which does not bad disruption and can get a reasonable amount of HP.

So the Mekboy having his global it's more or less balanced in 1vs1. As i said before, i don't like (except some exceptions) this globals affected the allied squads/vehicles.

But in good Chaos hands this global could be too much powerfull.

Seriously, imagine how powerfull could be if your ally is a Imperial Guard which likes to go heavy vehicles build. Imagine a Baneblade with Repair Bunker with +0.5 speed and -25% damage received. Imagine how durable could be a Land Raider Crusader and a GK Dread, a 2 x Leman Russ build, a Chaos Sorcerer player with Land Raider Phobos under Tzeentch Workshipp (if the -20% damage taken from the infiltration stacks with the -25%), a Chaos Lord player with MoK Dread under workshipp and with Bloodrage activated....

Of course, if this global ONLY affects your OWN vehicles, you please simply ignore the previous paragraph. Then say that it's more or less balanced.

Indrid wrote:T2:
Pandemonium
Cost 175 Red
All of the Champion's units deal double melee damage for 10s and are immune to weapon knockback, but their ranged damage is reduced to nil. Does not affect the GUO.
Cooldown: 60s

I still prefer my idea . Essentially, it's a instant win button if you go heavy melee build.

Indrid wrote:WARGEAR

WEAPONS:
Sword of Excess
Releases pleasure directly from the warp with each kill.
Cost: 125/25
60 DPS melee_pvp
13.29 piercing_pvp
Availability: T1

Grants passive:
On a melee kill, buffs surrounding allied infantry with +1 speed and +25% suppression resistance for 6s. Only affects the Champion's units and the Champion himself. Excess buff cannot occur more than once every 12s.

I like the idea to make the Chaos army more speedy, but i think it's too much damage in T1. With Psychon it's 90 melee dps in T1, and with a kill you have a 90 dps melee commander with 6.5 speed. Which could be a 7 speed with the T1 armour "Chosen" ability.

Indrid wrote:Axe of Madness
A deafening chainaxe possessed by a malicious daemon of Slaanesh.
Cost: 150/40
65 DPS melee_power_weapons_pvp
Grants a plasma pistol that slows enemy infantry's movement speed by 10% on hit, 7.82 DPS plasma_pvp
Availability: T2

Grants passive:
30% chance to inflict weapon_knockback on hit, 30% chance to inflict 30 melee_pvp damage to the Champion.

For this reason i don't like very much such a base high % buff (Psychon). It's not very Glass cannon to have "only" 65 power melee dps in an, on the other hand, expensive weapon. Yeah, with the buff you could have an 97.5 power melee dps commander, but...

It looks like could be a funny and even trolly (Problem, Slaneesh Champion? ) weapon, but its going to be very shaded by the first T1 weapon, much more fiable and with a buff on kill which could synergy with a lot of squads.

Indrid wrote:The Flawless Host
Increases health of the Champion and grants the Nocioception passive.
Cost: 180/50
Grants: +200 health
Availability: T2

Grants passive:
The Champion has a 25% chance to ignore incoming damage. On a melee kill, the Champion's speed is increased by +0.5 for 5s, stacks with Excess buff. Damage mitigation does not effect the DoT from Psychon.

As i said, it could be too much powerfull or too much shitty, depending of your luck. I don't like it very much :/

Indrid wrote:ACCESSORIES:
Orb of Discord
Grants the Discord ability.
Cost: 130/30
Availability: T1

Grants ability:
Discord
Target a location within radius 15 to summon the Orb of Discord. The orb does weapon_knockback in radius 5 on arrival. For the next 10s, the Champion's infantry and daemons within radius 15 of the Orb have +25% melee damage and are immune to weapon knockback, but receive +10% damage from all sources. 60 energy cost. 40s cooldown. Buff does not affect the Champion himself.

Very curious ability.

Indrid wrote:Icon of Slaanesh
Removes the health and energy drain from Psychon and increases the speed of nearby units.
Cost: 150/35
Grants +50 energy
Availability: T2

Grants passive:
Every 20s, a wave of pleasure is released that buffs movement speed of the Champion's infantry and daemons within radius 15 by 0.5 for 5s. Affects the Champion, stacks with Excess buff and Flawless Host passive.

Very powerfull Acessory.

Indrid wrote:General playstyle:
Pick your fights carefully to get in amongst ranged units for quick kills using Psychon and get your on-kill effects. Support early heretics with buffs and added mobility.

As i said, i like see a quickly and very mobile Chaos army. Maybe a little overpower the weapon_knockback inmunity in some buffs.

However, I would like to see more wargear, like an accesory which could be a whip to attract an enemy model to your Slaneesh Champion (Like the Lictor Flesh Hook, but without damage and the enemy model lands in front of the Slaneesh Champion), an ability to stun one model or squad.

The problem is you make with this decision even more powerful the Chaos opening, which except massive failures can win almost against every race in the first battle.

Lictor Alpha has 50 dps, FC has 40 dps, Hive Tyrant has 43 dps, Warboss has 42 dps and so on.

It's not a huge amount, but you make good points and I propose that the Slaanesh Champion's starting health be lowered to 650. I really want to keep the DPS though, I want him to be a real threat and have some of the Lucius The Eternal about him (a masterful melee fighter).

If i understood well:
Needs 50 energy of initial cost.
Consume 2% per second of energy and health (i suppose the 2% of the total health and energy.). This buff lasts 30 seconds, until your commander die or until you decide to turn it off.

I'm correct?

No, there is no duration. It will stop when your energy or health reaches 0, or you deactivate. Either of those things trigger a 30s cooldown. If you did not see the edit: Icon of Slaanesh is now proposed to only remove the energy drain from Psychon, so you can't keep it on indefinitely since you'll kill yourself.

Machine Possession

My idea with this global was to support the Chaos melee vehicles, ie Bloodcrusher (synergises well with the worship since it negates the resistance debuff) and MoK Dread. Help them get into combat and more importantly to escape. I stand by it affecting all allies. 175 is not cheap you are delaying Terminators and nuke to help vehicles maybe escape or maybe win an engagement. It is only 15s.

Pandemonium

I don't think it is I-Win, as it does not help you get into melee in the first place. Your melee squads can still be countered/suppressed/ability KBed and any other ranged units you have are doing nothing.

Sword of Excess

Yes on second thought the damage with Psychon is a little high. I change it to 50 dps base, so it'd be just a little higher than the Kommando's Knife with Psychon.

The Slaanesh Champion can stack speed yes but with (now) only 650 HP and no way to break suppression or deal with knockback (no shield) I don't think it is too bad.

Axe of Madness
For this reason i don't like very much such a base high % buff (Psychon). It's not very Glass cannon to have "only" 65 power melee dps in an, on the other hand, expensive weapon.

That's what a glass cannon is, high damage and low health. With Psychon use it is still below the Chaos Lord's claws and without Psychon below many other T2 power weapons. It is expensive too at 150/40. Commissar can get a power fist for that!

The Flawless Host

The idea behind this was to help the Champion tank but without any extra micro. You don't need to activate any abilities etc it just passively buffs you as well as the +200 HP. So you can run around and do what you do and focus on microing Psychon and worship etc. It is random yes, but with that is Chaos!

Icon of Slaanesh

Now only removes the energy drain from Psychon. The passive speed boost every 20s is worth the cost though.

All of your other points are valid too, just a difference of opinion I think.

Sounds like a really fun commander to play. Tough but rewarding playstyle!
One concern I have is (compared to other chaos commanders) he may have a tough time dealing with suppression, as he has no straightforward way to support raptors. Unless you use harvest soul, which I think is a bit too much. It seems like you need to rely on many snippets of buffs (like lots of suppression resistance), meaning a lot of pieces need to come together. Maybe give the slaanesh worship a mana-regen so that you dont lose too many raptor models?

GLOBALS:
Harves Soul:

Codex wrote:Harvest Soul seems OP...

I completely agree with Codex.
Would Pandemonium stack with machine posession? because pandemonium currently says "unit", not infantry so it could have really cool multiple-BC plays

UPGRADES:
Violator armor seems mediocre for 25 power (although +100 mana sounds really good).
Axe of Madness I think it will be funny (and mad lol) to make it knockback the chapion (instead of damage) for 10% maybe? really depends on the attack speed.

Indrid wrote:

Dark Riku wrote:Catalyst is on 1 squad only though.
While this is on multiple squads...

Yeah but how many melee squads will you have realistically? AC Tics, MoK CSM +1 more maybe? Perhaps a Bloodcrusher too? Remember during that time your Havocs/ranged CSM/NM/PM and any tanks/ranged Dreads and even your Phobos are doing no DPS at all with their main weapons. Your opponent can also just retreat out if they are in a bad position when they see it.

It will be used when they are in melee already.
At that moment it will be too late to retreat out of those tics, kcsm, bloodletter,... with DOUBLE damage + retreat modifiers.

You don't have to get ranged units or use it when ranged units are already retreating/capping/healing in base/...

Sorry still think it would be way too good.

Hmm...

How about you lose control of all units? Like Blood Rage?

Now that's Pandemonium!

Wow need to keep some sort of control lol.

Presuming for melee he's sharing the fc chainsword stats?

Indrid wrote:Hmm...

How about you lose control of all units? Like Blood Rage?

Now that's Pandemonium!

I like the sound of that. I remember reading something about Slaanesh in lexicanum where this song sent everyone who listened to it into violent or sexual rampage in the near proximity for the song duration. In further use it could be described to be AoE C-Dread blood rage as you said. (Not sure about the AoE but felt like adding it here.)

After all, using chaos powers does not come without a cost since there are always tradeoffs when using them. All a big gamble.

DJ Raffa wrote:Wow need to keep some sort of control lol.

Presuming for melee he's sharing the fc chainsword stats?

Yeah.

In general then:

Psychon should increase melee skill by say 20 and damage by 35%. 50% damage increase is way too high, and extra melee skill would help him at least fight back against stronger melee squads

Harvest Soul sounds nice but bear in mind in a mirror this makes Blood Sacrifice redundant. 75 red to counter a 200 one? Every day thanks

Machine Possession is in a good spot

Pandemonium needs serious reworking (from a fluff point shouldn't it be spelt "Pandaemonium"?) and a cost increase to around 250 red

Sword of Excess seems alright but those buffs aren't gonna do much. Reduce cost and make it a straight up melee upgrade?

For the Axe of Madness, it's a good idea but it should be ignoring melee resistance imo. Also make it so that if it does passive knockback then that is when the Champion also takes damage. Fluff-wise I'd make Axe of Madness the T1 weapon and the Sword the T2 one.

Violator armour seems fine, in particular extra energy seems this could be a good long-term buy. 25 power tho

Flawless host should give him the passive ability to reduce all damage by 20-25%

Change Orb of Discord so it gives +30% damage

Icon of Slaanesh seems fine

6 wargears seems about right to start with. Good foundations here

Pandaemonium

Nope, I assure you it's Pandamonium!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... iyp4#t=20s

I found the sound effect for the global activation

For comparison's sake..

Given what Lulgrim said about assets, or lack of, I just wonder if a subcommander is more likely from a purely implementation-wise perspective. For a new hero we need new animations (especially worship, how is that gonna get done?), possibly weapons and more besides. All the assets to make a subcommander are already there.

Think there's a reason we've only seen one new hero added. That's not to discourage talk of a new hero I'd love one Just think subcommander might logically be a more likely option.

Implementation-wise it doesn't matter if it's a 4th hero or a subcommander. Worship just needs a purple fx (instead of red/green/blue) and a Slaanesh decal (which might even exist) and the actual animations are the same as K/N/T Worship. The only thing we are slightly fucked with is voices.

You could use the Slaanesh decal that appears when noise marines are upgrading to blastmaster; the pink there could be used for the fx too. I wonder if it's possible to give him a pink fx for his power sword?

Chaos Lord's voice is probs the best option for voiceovers. Can only remember one Slaanesh comment, "Send them to Slaanesh!" but overall it would be a decent fit.

But now that it doesn't matter implementation-wise I'm fully behind the idea for a 4th commander

I really like the Sorcerer quote that is sometimes used when fighting Eldar: "I shall feed their souls to Slaanesh!"

Also, just as a visual detail, maybe it would be good to give him the Commissar's power sabre, given that Emperor's Children and Slaanesh worshipers seem to have a preference for sabres over broadswords

I think the voice over from noise marines would fit well. I think they also have some references to slaneash. Also, makes each chaos hero sound distinct.

Codex wrote:

Pandaemonium

Nope, I assure you it's Pandamonium!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... iyp4#t=20s
I found the sound effect for the global activation

Not sure if serious because it is pandaemonium.
And not PANDAmonium like the pandas in WoW....

Not srs.

= not srs.

Speaking of voice overs. What happened to the people who were volunteered lending their voice overs for the game?

A 4th hero choice could certainly be interesting and a Slaanesh champion for Chaos fits in nicely. Perhaps the Slaanesh shrine could have a Retreat beacon mechanic worked in somehow? No reinforcement as that is covered by Nurgle but the option to retreat without running all the way back to base would open up some tactical options (without the powerful benefits of healing and reinforcements in the field).

In my mind a Slaanesh champion would be somewhat fragile but dangerous, swift moving but lacking in AoE. More of a dangerous duelist than a slayer of grunts. Perhaps with some sort of Fleet as his starting ability, letting him move faster and jump over cover but increasing incoming damage or disabling retreat while active?

Wargear options look interesting and I'd be tempted to add some sort of short ranged single target stun/flesh hook ability as a Lash/Bindings of Slaanesh ability. Also some sort of armour that charges an ability akin to Cacophony by taking damage perhaps?

Not sure any of these are useful but I figure sharing some ideas and having the mulled over by others is better than just keeping them to myself.