Chaos and Marks

[Aertes]

I've had another idea about Chaos marines and Marks. It would mean maybe a too big change, but I thought it could be interesting:

Chaos Space Marines: include the following options for Tier 2.
- Mark of Nurgle: the unit gets more health and their bolters envenom the target (like Plague marine's bolters).
- Mark of Slaanesh: the unit gets the Cacophony ability. Their charge move and melee attack become much faster.

Chaos Dreadnoguht: include the following options for Tier 2.
- Mark of Nurgle: the dreadnought's autocannon envenoms objectves (like Plague marine's bolters) and it gets greater health.
- Mark of Slaanesh: the dreadnought gets a second claw, like Mark of Khorne's but it doesn't get the berserk ability; instead it gets the Cacophony ability.

Chaos Predator: include the following options for Tier 3.
- Mark of Slaanesh: the predator changes its autocannon for a Blastmaster.

[BaptismByLoli]

I'm no expert in DoW2 but some of these upgrades make units like Noisemarine as a whole useless IMO and I see no reason why this should be the case when they are goos vs IG. Furthermore, I see no reason for the change. Should bring this up in Codex mod rather than in Elite

[Ace of Swords]

So all that chaos will need to do will be spam havoks in t1 and never ever need to get anything else?

[BaptismByLoli]

Toilalee would approve

[ChrisNihilus]

The flamer unit for Chaos is the Noise Marine.

Chaos don't really need other options to Tier 1 units.
It is Tier 2 that may enjoy some extra-flexibility, and not the Dreadnought for sure.
And we must be honest, and say that Chaos is the race that get more love from the modding community.

[Now let's have fun with ideas]
But i we really really really want to add the other marks, then you must think about something Chaos don't have.

You Slaanesh CSM is a Noise Marine, for example. It's not something needed.
And the Nurgle one is a flamer unit, like Noise Marine.

Maybe you want of the two mark, you need to offer new strategies.
For example, the Nurgle Havocs can be Heavy Bolter ones, like the standard units, but very slow, more robust and can fire on the move.
That's something new and can add something to the gameplay.

Needed? No, but it's fun to think about new units

[Aertes]

I've edited the ideas a bit. I kept the Noise Marine and Plague Marine this time and just added the marks for normal Caos Space Marines as something that just might be curious. Removed the ideas for Havoks, since they come already represented by plague marines and noise marines respectively.

[Kvek]

csms with cacophony would be insane, they already pound most of ranged units, and now they could stop melee squads as well
oh and a predator with a blastmaster would be pure lulz, i approve of it

[Black Relic]

NO blast master on the pred. For that mark id say, sonic blasters on the sides of the pred, and the auto cannon shot about 10% faster than normal. The sonic blasters do the same thing as the noise marines.

The only Mark i would really approve of would be a Mark of the Undivided. Some thing in the middle of MoT and MoK. Like all it does it add another 20% on CSM damage, and increase melee skill by 70. But the melee skill increase is most likely too much. Would require testing.

[lolzarz]

Yeah, of course an increase of 70 will be incredibly OP...

But doesn't Eternal War sort of represent the Mark of Chaos Undivided?

[Black Relic]

Yes. It woulld just be another increase. Pretty much another eternal war but with another name. Of course, cannot get it until t2 and once you do you cannot purchase another mark like MoT or MoK, since the upgrade itself is a mark.

[Barrogh]

But doesn't Eternal War sort of represent the Mark of Chaos Undivided?

Pretty sure it doesn't as you can sort of slap MoK or MoT on them in addition to that.
I think the closest thing you get is Veterans of the Long War.

[Black Relic]

Lol. I miss read the question. Yes Eternal War (i don't think so at least) doesn't represent Undivided since that mean they have not dedicated to a single god. And like Barrogh said you can dedicate your CSM of Khorne or Tzeentch with the Eternal War upgrade on.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

- A Mark of Nurgle for CSM or a ranged damage increase upgrade for Plague Marines can fill a pure Anti - infantry squad role. OK, we already have MoT CSM, but they aren't very cost - effective. For example, against IG, Eldar or Orks, with very few HI or SHI armour squads, a MoN CSM or Plague Marines + Ranged damage increase can be most cost- effective than MoT CSM or AC EW CSM.

- A Mark of Nurgle for Chaos Dreadnought could be interesting, the same goes for a Mark of Slaanesh Chaos Preadator, with an Blastmaster with more AOE but less damage than the Noise Marines one.

[Kvek]

sm fanboys want a pred with a plasma cannon
ofc, less disruption

[Nurland]

I don't think any of these are needed. CSM are versatile enough as they are and so are Chaos Preds... Nurgle Dread is something that could be cool. T3 upgrade that would increase the AI capabilities, decrease speed and grant 300 or so extra hp. Or as a T2 bile spewer upgrade.

[BaptismByLoli]

Or as a T2 bile spewer upgrade.

So basically, we're gonna see a Chaos Variant of a GK Inferno Dread as he tries to impress his Chaos God and Colleagues

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[Nurland]

Well... Basically. Though I'd prefer a debuff effect and/or an AoE snare ability like PC Bile Pewer and Bane Wolf.

[L0thar]

While I always welcome new meaningful addition to the game, I would prefer more focus on other races.

And I especially disagree with making Chaos more marine oriented. We already have Space Marines and Grey Knights for that. IMHO even adding Chaos terminators was a big mistake.

More daemons, sure! But there are probably problems with models...

sm fanboys want a pred with a plasma cannon
ofc, less disruption

Now, that you mention it...yeah, I want it . I always though that 3 preds variant for Chaos and 1 for SM was odd. Not exactly plasma cannon, but something with great anti HI/SHI damage and zero AV capabilites would fit into SM roster nicely.

[Barrogh]

I'd rather prefer Chaos not becoming even more braindead, which is what will be achieved through some of those options.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Well... Basically. Though I'd prefer a debuff effect and/or an AoE snare ability like PC Bile Pewer and Bane Wolf.

I doubt IG would be happy with Chaos having another AOE damage source.

While I always welcome new meaningful addition to the game, I would prefer more focus on other races.

And I especially disagree with making Chaos more marine oriented. We already have Space Marines and Grey Knights for that. IMHO even adding Chaos terminators was a big mistake.

More daemons, sure! But there are probably problems with models...

sm fanboys want a pred with a plasma cannon
ofc, less disruption

Now, that you mention it...yeah, I want it . I always though that 3 preds variant for Chaos and 1 for SM was odd. Not exactly plasma cannon, but something with great anti HI/SHI damage and zero AV capabilites would fit into SM roster nicely.

As Daemon units, only exists models for Daemonnettes, Possesed Marines and (changing a bit the Bloodletter model) the Skulltaker. And except you focussed that melee squad in heavy melee (for T3) or a melee heavy debuffer squad, Chaos already have a lot of melee squads.

I'd rather prefer Chaos not becoming even more braindead, which is what will be achieved through some of those options.

More "braindead"? Can you explain yourself better?

[Barrogh]

More "braindead"? Can you explain yourself better?

Chaos is notorious for having low entry barrier. It probably doesn't affect anybody posting on this forum, but it's well known. Adding marks for CSM that basically overlap with existing Chaos units not only serves little to no real purpose, but also opens up an option to, basically, buy more baseline units without any particular idea on composition and fit them accordingly later, on reaction.

On another note, the only resoning behind proposed changes presented ITT is "not all Chaos gods are pleased". Sounds more like GW writer's line of thought rather than of someone who actually cares about making competitive game.

[ChrisNihilus]

More "braindead"? Can you explain yourself better?

Chaos is notorious for having low entry barrier. It probably doesn't affect anybody posting on this forum, but it's well known. Adding marks for CSM that basically overlap with existing Chaos units not only serves little to no real purpose, but also opens up an option to, basically, buy more baseline units without any particular idea on composition and fit them accordingly later, on reaction.

On another note, the only resoning behind proposed changes presented ITT is "not all Chaos gods are pleased". Sounds more like GW writer's line of thought rather than of someone who actually cares about making competitive game.

I agree.
The only difference is that, i believe, sometime we shall make an exception and ignore balance and competive gaming for gameplay and refreshing the meta.
But yes, new marks are not what is needed to do one or the other.

[BaptismByLoli]

I'm up for trying out a new meta for the giggles. Can't say the same about ignoring balance and competetive plays.

I must be a masochist or something for enjoying close games even if I lose.

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[sk4zi]

I don't think any of these are needed. CSM are versatile enough as they are and so are Chaos Preds...

to be honest. i dont think so.

imho chaos is lagging AE (on units, not heroes) and a senseful upgrade to CSM versus hig model low armor races.
MoT and MoK are very good against heavy and super heavy armor but versus other armor types ists just a minor dmg increase
also i would love the blastmaster on a vehicle unit - the dread is lagging a good ai upgrade ... the barrage of the Tzeentch dread does good damage but thats it.

[L0thar]

While I always welcome new meaningful addition to the game, I would prefer more focus on other races.

And I especially disagree with making Chaos more marine oriented. We already have Space Marines and Grey Knights for that. IMHO even adding Chaos terminators was a big mistake.

More daemons, sure! But there are probably problems with models...

As Daemon units, only exists models for Daemonnettes, Possesed Marines and (changing a bit the Bloodletter model) the Skulltaker. And except you focussed that melee squad in heavy melee (for T3) or a melee heavy debuffer squad, Chaos already have a lot of melee squads.

It's still something though. I would personally take away the clawminators and substitued them with the possesed marines. They should differ in stats (HI, less health, able to retreat, maybe some frenzy-like ability), but they would fill similar role. That would make Chaos more unique without trampling on SM uniqueness in the process (which clawminators currently do).

Or even adding a T3 upgrade to Bloodletters to make them more survivable. Anything, just not copy pasting units from different faction.

[Dark Riku]

imho chaos is lagging AE
...
the dread is lagging a good ai upgrade ... the barrage of the Tzeentch dread does good damage but thats it.

What is AE?
Due to the volume of rockets fired, the Tzeench dread can also be used on infantry.
And as you mentioned, it gets an awesome ability to use versus infantry.

[BaptismByLoli]

I thought the barrage suppressed infanry as well. Or was that only in Retail?

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[Rataxas]

I've edited the ideas a bit. I kept the Noise Marine and Plague Marine this time and just added the marks for normal Caos Space Marines as something that just might be curious. Removed the ideas for Havoks, since they come already represented by plague marines and noise marines respectively.

got a question , how many hours you got on 1v1 ? Rly Caletos is even reading this ? Players that want say something about balance should first play in tourney and won few fights.

[sk4zi]

AE = AoE = area of Effect = splash dmg like the blastmaster-

edit:
this is not the balance forum rataxas

[Dark Riku]

I've never seen AoE abbreviated otherwise...
Chaos doesn't lack AoE at all :p