Dawn of War Codex

Keeping on with my ideas for a new character for each race, I thought about a Slaanesh Chaos Lord first, but after having the Chaplain ideas this sounded better.

The idea would be getting a Chaos Undivided hero for Chaos Space Marines. he'd be specialized in morale and daemon support, unlike the control and damage specialty of the Sorcerer.

Animations: he could start using the animations of a Chaos paladin (space marine commander, marine sergeant and such), he would come equiped with Bolt Pistol and Crozius Diabolicum, this last one would work as a power axe, slower than sword but more powerful against non-heavy infantry, looking like a mace with the eight points Chaos star as head.

Stats: he should be very similar to a Sorcerer to start, maybe a bit more competent in melee. His armors could give him higher armor and health than the sorcerers'.

Chaos Undivided Adoration: if this hero is chosen, heretic's adoration makes nearby friendly units shoot normally while suppressed and slows down enemy Daemons. Adoration in Altars make friendly units also highly resistant (or maybe Immune) to knockback.

Initial Abilities:
- Fanatic: the Dark Apostle is immune to suppression but can't retreat (or his retreat speed is not faster than his normal speed).
- Fanatism: targeted ability that targets a friendly unit, increasing its melee ability for a time.

Weapon Options:
T1- Daemonbreath Pistol: the Dark Apostle is equiped with a Plasma Pistol that deals explosive damage and increase energy regeneration.
T2- Master Rod: Crozius Diabolicum improvement, makes it more powerful and gives the "Shepherd" ability, that targets a friendly infantry model and kills it to restore some of the Dark Apostle health.
T3- Daemon Jail: Replaces the Crozius Arcanum for a two handed version (space marine captain's thunderhammer animations) effective against all infantry. It grants the "Greater Daemon Possession" ability, that activates a frenzy state similar to that of Chaos Dreadnoughts with Mark of Khorne: the player looses control for a short time, but the Dark Apostle gains damage resistance and deals heavy damage to all targets.

Armor Options:
T1- Robe of Living Skin: gives higher health and energy.
T2- Armor of Fanatism: gives higher health and enhances the Fanatism ability, also increasing the target's melee damage and the duration of the effect.
T3- Unholy Helmet: increases health and gives the "Unholy Gaze" ability, that targets an enemy unit and drains its morale, maybe supressing it and stealing part of its energy for the Dark Apostle.

Accesory Options:
T1- Book of Dark Rites: gives the Dark Apostle the "Adoration" ability, allowing him to adore just like Heretics, even in altars (but can't build them).
T2- Daemon Lord: gives the Dark Apostle a targeted ability that only targets friendly daemons. It gives a slight resistance enhancement and allows them to reinforce anywhere for a short time.
T3- Blasphemous Icon: it increases energy regeneration and gives the "Soul Corruption" ability, that targets a friendly or enemy infantry unit and slightly increase the damage it takes. Each model that dies while under the effect of this ability has a chance of summoning a Bloodletter.

A) There are no Chaos Paladin in Elite

B) So the Chaos Shrines makes both units immune to Suppresion AND Knockback? (if its going to be seperate, don't make life hard for the modders)

C) Define 'Melee Ability'. More melee damage? Melee resistance? Increased Melee skill?

D) Armour Of Fanatism + Fanatism + Bloodletters or Clawminators = GG WP no re set-up teams? (And other melee units?)

E) T1 Accessory and Weapon sounds useless

F) T2 Accessory, Daemon Lord = MoT Havoc plus Double Letters

G) T3 Accessory - What's the % chance for a Bloodletter to spawn?

F) In the most nicest way possible;

As of now, there are no demands for any new units or commander. Heck, before a new unit is even added, the statistics of current units must be assesed and evaluated first to see if maybe they can be tweaked to address current issues since adding new units is usually a pain IMO as in some cases it can lead to lulz worthy builds and other vexing stuff.

And the status of the UI Mod by DontTouchMyCrumpets is unknown IIRC. And dont forget that if UI Mod isn't happening, so to are the fourth heroes like the Chaplain.

I may be using the wrong proverb but what I'm trying to say is, Don't count your chickens before they hatch. You can still continue and go ahead if you want to though.

P.s Codex Mod already has a Chaplain as a Commander... I think..

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IMHO If in the future is going to be implemented a 4th commander for Chaos a Slaanesh commander could be more interesting.

I see a Dark Apostle more as a sub-commander, the same goes to a possible Warpsmith.

First, I am guessing this is the final (fourth) Chaos Commander because no subcommander in the modder's right mind has that much wargear.

I love Dark Apostles and when GW added them to the Chaos Codex I was so happy, but this is Elite, it is different, it requires immeadiate balance before going off on a whim and making these things. So far he seems wildly OP in some areas and a little downtrodden in others. He also just sounds a bit like the Lord and Sorceror squashed together to create some kind of offensive spell carnage, which is a nice idea but one that is easily breakable.

As I said, nice idea, but like many have suggested, I really think you should see Codex edition, they would probably love your ideas.

I have also noticed tha all of my posts on your threads seem to have a very negative air to them. This isn't about you, it is supposed to reflect my thoughts on your proposal.

Dark Apostle of Slaanesh is the perfect 4th commander for Chaos.

- For Discreet:

A) There are no Chaos Paladin in Elite
I mean the normal sergeant, the same animations that space marine's force commander or any marine (loyal or Chaos) sergeant.

B) So the Chaos Shrines makes both units immune to Suppresion AND Knockback? (if its going to be seperate, don't make life hard for the modders)
That's the original idea, yes.

C) Define 'Melee Ability'. More melee damage? Melee resistance? Increased Melee skill?
I meant Skill, sorry. I speak Spanish.

D) Armour Of Fanatism + Fanatism + Bloodletters or Clawminators = GG WP no re set-up teams? (And other melee units?)
I don't understand GG WP.

E) T1 Accessory and Weapon sounds useless
Its T1, you don't get the ultimate gear there.

F) T2 Accessory, Daemon Lord = MoT Havoc plus Double Letters
See? nice combo there.

G) T3 Accessory - What's the % chance for a Bloodletter to spawn?
I don't know but it should be pretty low.

- For Swiftsabre:

Making him a secondary character sounds a really good idea, maybe for Tier 2, and would leave the Slaanesh main hero possibility available.

The idea of a dark Apostle is they are mostly Chaos Undivided. Whilst Slaaneshi Apostles exist it would a strange way to portray the Slaanesh character.

For Aertes
That is where i think a forth Chaos hero should go. Whilst chaos probably do not need a sub commander at the moment it would be a good idea to put an Apostle in as a sub commander if he is ever required (and it even reflects the lore, since, Dark Apostles don't tend to lead the force themselves).

Well, like the Chaos Lord there is no need for a forced connection to justify the God the army gets.

A Chaos Lord can worship a lot of gods and mostly are for chaos undivised, but makes a lot of sense with Khorne, so the Dark Apostle can be seeing inclined to Slaanesh while being neutral.

Dark Apostle himself don't need simbols of Slaanesh all over it, and he himself can worship the Chaos Undivided, but his cultists worshipping Slaanesh make a lot of sense as oratory and charisma is the kind of things that attract Slaaneshi Cultists more than the others.

They are more far more "social" than other cultists.

No offense mate but pushing things ain't going to do any good. Trust me, I know.

Lost Son of Nikhel wrote:IMHO If in the future is going to be implemented a 4th commander for Chaos a Slaanesh commander could be more interesting.

I see a Dark Apostle more as a sub-commander, the same goes to a possible Warpsmith.

+1

A) Ouh

B) Please No, Especially when you think about it with something along with point, 'F'

C) Ouh, Don't worry about it

D) Good Game, Well Played. Set-up teams are gonna be risky vs Apostle

E) Fair enough but still :p

F) Daemon Lord + Armour of Fanatism + MoT Havoc + Double Bloodletters = Extreme Gay-ness, especially with 2.3's reduced BL pop. I find it more of an abuse than as a combo though that may be my inexperience talking and not my sensibility

G) Good Enough

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For Discreet:

B) Please No, Especially when you think about it with something along with point, 'F'
Keep in mind there will be times where this is pretty useless. If you face a melee army your knockback and supression immunity won't be of great use.

D) Good Game, Well Played. Set-up teams are gonna be risky vs Apostle
Not a perfect idea, yes. maybe it would be better that the Adoration aura made your army shoot normally while suppressed (like Nurgle marines) but still slow you down. Anyway, set-up teams deal massive damage when you come close to them, a supression immunity won't save you from that.

F) Daemon Lord + Armour of Fanatism + MoT Havoc + Double Bloodletters = Extreme Gay-ness, especially with 2.3's reduced BL pop. I find it more of an abuse than as a combo though that may be my inexperience talking and not my sensibility
I still think that Daemon Lord isn't a bad idea. Maybe removing the resistance enhancement and only leaving the reinforcing aura...

Commissar Yarrick wrote:No offense mate but pushing things ain't going to do any good. Trust me, I know.

If that's meant to be addressed to me, I'm not pushing anything. I just have some ideas and I wanted to share them, that's all...

B) Do you know how important Knockback is in melee? It's very important cause a downed unit can't do anything but receive damage.

D) I'm talking about the firing arc. With suppresion immunity, unless its a narrow area units will easily be able to just run away from the firing arc and not straight into the set-up teams. Once they are out of the firing arc, they can easily go in and force melee.

F) It's the two things that scare me actually, not just one

I just made some changes to the first post concerning your comments, Discreet.

And yes knockback is important, but, again, keep in mind that's all that the Dark Apostle adoration does. It doesn't heal you, nor increase your speed and damage, nor infiltrate and improve your energy regeneration. All those are pretty good. Anyway I removes the supression immunity and left it like Nurgle Marines for the moment, allowing enemy supression teams to keep their utility.

I still like both things, I'll change it making it a targeted ability instead of an aura, so that only one unit can benefit from it at a time.

Dark Apostles in TT are very tough, starting with a 4++ invul save which they can then boost to a 3++ with Mark of Tzeentch. Their primary usefulness is in the LD 10 bubble and the Zealot rule which can make other things Fearless and give them Hatred. Right now, people use him with large hordes of Cultists or groups of CSM with close combat weapons.

He also gives rerolls on the Chaos boon table.

In the lore, he's basically a Chaos chaplain and is more likely to get boons/favor from the ruinous powes. His Crozius is basically the same type of thing that a Chaplain would have plus whatever Warp powers it may be imbued with.

Now, in a game like DOW2, you have to think about what role he's going to have in your army, but you also need to make sure that he isn't stealing another commander's thunder. He can't be "like the Khorne Chaos Lord (tanky melee hero) only better."

That being said, there's a lot you could do with this guy to make him fit the current game:

The Dark Apostle may make for a fine secondary commander, with an AOE suppression break for your troops (Zealot/Fearless) that also boosts speed and/or melee damage. Chaos boons could work like the Mekboy's cybork upgrades currently do, giving one squad a special custom boost for a cost.

Chaos also currently has no way to break retreat, so he could give a targeted squad something akin to the Commissar execute boost but without killing a model, at the cost of not being able to retreat for the duration, or possibly just costing some red.

Since Chaos marks in Elite do not actually grant any powers but rather function as weapon upgrades, the DA has an opportunity to be an optional force multiplier for your army kind of like the SM librarian currently is.

Thanks for the comments, GG_Codex.

I never meant this Dark Apostle to be like a Chaos Lord, he comes with a power armor and of course he'd be a worse melee fighter than the terminator lord. He shouldn't be much better than a Sorcerer in melee to start with. His abilities were meant to mimic those of the board game but within the DoW II style.

Breaking retreat shouldn't be an ability that Chaos had, they aren't known for their discipline, but for their fanatism, that's why I put one of the the main Apostle's features (fearless) linked to the army's Adoration ability, and the other (hatred) as a targeted ability.