Dawn of War Codex

Im not sure if this has been addressed before but the warp spider phase amour ability which when used to stop caps and attacks from armies is fine but when it is used with that bloody eletricth storm and avatar wailing doom or the d-cannons singularity i find myself wanting to stop playing or simply resign, due to the distress i get losing units and not being able to do jack shit.

I've been owned by players doing it before mainly from high leveled players but for u who dont know the phase amour is a tier 3 war-gear for the warp spider hero
.It freezes units as well as Ur own units and allows them to take no damage and stops them firing and retreating. The problem is good players can time it so when its just about to run out they can time nasty combos when it ends such as plasma grenades, hero ability's and nukes and ever painful chooses.

The worst is the nukes as u cant do anything u can retreat move or fight which means u are at the mercy of retreat damage and the positioning of ur units.

The simple solution to this i feel would be to give the units that are affected by the phase amour ability to have a damage reduction to them for 5 seconds after the ability stops, not sure what would be good maybe 10%, 20% or at least a amount to ensure that a entire army isn't loosed due to u making a mistake of not running from he warp spider when u see him .
This is also something that people can use to wipe a retreating army as when they get to base they active it when all the units are clumped together which = massive damage and wipes.

So either changing the ability to perhaps allow units to retreat from it instead of them sitting there helpless or allowing damage reduction to units caught in the phase after it wears off for a few precious seconds would allow it to be used still but not allow it to cause army wipes or distress from not being able to do anything to escape or simply avoid it.

It's hard to pull off and I rarely see it happen though. Still, I agree that this issue needs to be addressed.

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Well there may a vid on 1 of the casters channel of Holyhammer using it to kill 2 termanguants, warrior brood and venom brood of my army due to the points i mentioned. Seen players like swat do it many time as it his main. Ofc i sound like im moaning as it happened to me recently but thats the point as if there was a way to simply avoid it i wouldn't of made such a silly mistake of blobing but seeing as a single moment of blobing Ur troops can lead to u losing a whole army isn't simple fair or right in my eyes

Eldar. It's what they do best. Punishing you like mad for the slightest mistakes :p

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I play with Holy more than anyone else and yes he will start trying Phase + Eldritch/Ava/Dcannon/etc.. most games where you have survived to T3.

Player mistakes make it more effective than it should be, i.e. there is a bad common habit of blobbing far too hard and this is the ultimate wargear for punishing that. Even one ranged squad not caught in it can pew pew the warp spider down given the extra damage he takes.

It can be frustrating, but it is balanced. Besides I have only seen two players in my time in this game make me think this might be OP. They are Holy and Edtjuh. QFT.

Warp throw is just as bad yet that's T2.

Raffa wrote:It can be frustrating, but it is balanced. Besides I have only seen two players in my time in this game make me think this might be OP. They are Holy and Edtjuh. QFT.

How can a combo which you can't do nothing to stop it yet if well executed will result in guaranteed squad wipe is balanced?

That Torpid Gamer wrote:Warp throw is just as bad yet that's T2.

At least they have a marker now for what its worth

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I don't see what difference the marker makes whatsoever. There's still not enough time to dodge it. I guess it helps vs an infiltrated warlock pulling stuff into banshees and then using swift movement to guarantee squad wipes with absolutely no counter whatsoever, but that's about it and that's a pretty niche application.

Was gonna argue back that Eldar had poor linebreakers but as I thought about it more, they actually don't. Just need to combo them at most maybe.

P.S. I know the marker is useless. Was being sarcastic XD. Only thing it forces you to do is either retreat or get in a transport unless it's an Eldritch in which case, RIP.

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But, the Phase shift ability no longer grants immortality to WSE during that moment, he's still susceptible to all sources of damage . Normally he gets FF down before he could even finish Phase shift into Combo shenanigans. Unless he somehow positions his teleport and caught hold of your army and you're unable to react

The problem is sod if the player uses phase at the right time then the units on the field cants shoot him or move so u cant kill him before he uses the nuke. I guess in certain 2v2's or 3v3's a ally can come save u but thats a big but for a start and another player isn't going to rush in and save the day with a avatar wailing doom or nuke about to be fired off any sec

Warp Throw is bad, marker does nothing, no time to dodge - saving grace is nobody is enough of a wanker to use this regularly. Combo it with Cloak of Shadows and it's just bullshit to da max.

At least for Phase Shift the Warp Spider has a serious chance of dying if he uses it wrongly. Honestly I'm not convinced this is too bad as when I play against it I try to be very careful with positioning and accept that okay, if the Eldar has saved up his red for a nuke with the express purpose of executing this combo, I'm gonna respect that and be careful.

Avatar is harder to deal with, but it's 240 power in total and of course risks losing the squishy hero who is squishier and still as a statue whilst using this.

Although this may be because I see it quite regularly and have learned how to manage it better than for example how to manage multiple Sluggas led by a Knob as Chaos, which I'm currently mulling over.

Relevant replay with some phase shift usage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itqwiF_gTOc

I haven't really seen this enough to have a strong opinion on it, but it's definitely strong (esp in team games).

Radio the Forest wrote:Relevant replay with some phase shift usage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itqwiF_gTOc

I haven't really seen this enough to have a strong opinion on it, but it's definitely strong (esp in team games).

That's the only replay where I sucked with it :p


Also with the new market warp throw is entirely dodgeable, and if you fuck up, atleast you know when to retreat and not lose your whole army, also it requires a much better timing than PA (phase armor).

I've oneshotted many blobs, even 2gm+ a leman russ with it and counteless Lanradiers/carnifexes with the eldres, or cheesed osinski's infantry with it + Dcannons which is completely impossible to avoid and really easy as fuck to pull off, and it will grant atleast 1 squad kill + an almost wiped out army.

And of course there are still all the banshees/nades/wraithguards/autarch/avatar combos, plus you can use it to cut off half of the army of your opponent while you deal with the rest, or to cut off his mate while you double a player and many more tactical uses.

Or If torpid remembers, we had a 2v2 many months ago, you were with holy I with Swat, in the end swat used PA on holy's army, I went in with an eldrich, aaaaaaaaaand poof it's gone.

But on the topic of the WSE there are many broken wargears like the deathspinners, probably this hero should get an overall rework.

I think phase armor would become way more interesting (and less bullshit) if it only affected friendly units. You could use it to tank nukes/AoE abilities or to throw off an opponent who expected to force off or wipe one of your squads. Obviously would require a rework, the WSE should probably become invulnerable again...

fv100 wrote:I think phase armor would become way more interesting (and less bullshit) if it only affected friendly units. You could use it to tank nukes/AoE abilities or to throw off an opponent who expected to force off or wipe one of your squads. Obviously would require a rework, the WSE should probably become invulnerable again...

This actually sounds pretty good

A properly aimed warp throw doesn't seem very dodgeable and I found it fairly easy to see it before as you always want to keep an eye on the warlock as he's such a bitch once he gets in melee (either with the MWB or kurnous). At the end of the day it still provides way too much utility for the cost. Saving squads from melee. Just controlling melee. Forcing instant retreats on suppressed squads. Countering set-up teams instantly. Stopping point captures. Fucking over IG by stopping repair units since GM take up so much space and are so blobby and just in general messing up people's compositions in an instant.

I too like that idea with the phase armour, although I still would like for warp throw to be T3...

Discreet wrote:It's hard to pull off and I rarely see it happen though. Still, I agree that this issue needs to be addressed.

It's not hard at all. Unless you can't count. :p

Raffa wrote:It can be frustrating, but it is balanced. Besides I have only seen two players in my time in this game make me think this might be OP. They are Holy and Edtjuh. QFT.

Any good arguments as to why this should be even considered to be balanced?

Raffa wrote:and of course risks losing the squishy hero who is squishier and still as a statue whilst using this.

The wse ins't squishier anymore while using phase armour.
That change got reverted a long time ago, I don't know why :/

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:But, the Phase shift ability no longer grants immortality to WSE during that moment, he's still susceptible to all sources of damage . Normally he gets FF down before he could even finish Phase shift into Combo shenanigans. Unless he somehow positions his teleport and caught hold of your army and you're unable to react

Kind of hard to focus fire the hero down when most or even all of your squads are frozen in place. The AoE is kinda huge.

Another way to balance out this ability is to lower the AOE freeze. I like how unique the ability is and it should stay as it is. Even though I don't play WSE much, I think this armor contributes greatly to how annoying he can be. Which is a big reason why i like to play him. His is annoying.

A much smaller AOE would go a long way. ATM it is pretty huge

there was a suggestion, i think in retail when it was changed, of making the invulnerability last a bit longer than the hold.

I'm sorry but even throw requires some thought. Plus you can at least retreat before it goes off. Phase requires none. Warp in game over

Superhooper01 wrote:The problem is sod if the player uses phase at the right time then the units on the field cants shoot him or move so u cant kill him before he uses the nuke. I guess in certain 2v2's or 3v3's a ally can come save u but thats a big but for a start and another player isn't going to rush in and save the day with a avatar wailing doom or nuke about to be fired off any sec

Well 1v1 perspective u get screwed literally . Team battles,We seldom seen Phase shift combos pulled off successfully right? Phase shift can also save your entire army and allies from Nukes and stuff ,stopping decap,etc . I don't see a way of nerfing it though,duration shorten will cause wailing dooms/Singularity/nukes to hit faster unless someway u KB the WSE which i doubt it. I think its generally fine though ,sometimes it depends on Mishap of luck or Misfortune ,Eldar can screw up if his timing is not impeccable . Admittedly so we don't see phase shift happening often in T3

Still think giving units affected by phase shift a damage reduction for a few seconds could allow the combos like nukes waling doom etc to be less of a death sentence to a entire army. Like the idea of it only affecting ally units or his own as will still be useful.

Superhooper01 wrote:Still think giving units affected by phase shift a damage reduction for a few seconds could allow the combos like nukes waling doom etc to be less of a death sentence to a entire army. Like the idea of it only affecting ally units or his own as will still be useful.

hmm that is Ok too ! A small widow of immortality for your army able to react

Wow sod not complete damage reduction just something like um 25% for 8 seconds maybe im not good with percentages on elite when it comes to things like that so wouldn't demand a number just something to stop wipes. I think when hammer did it to me i was nids which is worse as the warrior brood explosion (synapse bomb) does extra damage with the nuke so maybe that why my loses were high?

Superhooper01 wrote:Wow sod not complete damage reduction just something like um 25% for 8 seconds maybe im not good with percentages on elite when it comes to things like that so wouldn't demand a number just something to stop wipes. I think when hammer did it to me i was nids which is worse as the warrior brood explosion (synapse bomb) does extra damage with the nuke so maybe that why my loses were high?

WB snyaspe bomb don't do extra damage to surrounding nidlings ,something like a few seconds invulnerability u mean after Phase shift.

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:WB snyaspe bomb don't do extra damage to surrounding nidlings ,something like a few seconds invulnerability u mean after Phase shift.

Yes it does, depending on the squad it does from 10% to 18%. Carnifexes and TG lose 10% health when they feel a synapse bomb, and given their health it's more damage than some AV weapons can do

I actually think that's a good idea. Phase shift gives a damage resist aura of ~20% for 5 seconds after the ability ends.