My Ramblings on the Inquisitor vs Eldar

[Torpid]

In t1 if the eldar goes for a heavy mobile army, that is either 2 DA (or more) + shees OR 3 DA (or more) then catachans are viable as they will bleed DA tremendously and completely negate banshees. Just be wary of allowing your catachans to be killed on retreat by dire avenger grenades. So you go: GM, sent, GM, catachans and tech, get the stomp too to counter a single shuriken in combination with HOTW (hammer of the witches) or 'ol unreliable.

If they go for an immobile army, that is 2x DA + 2x SCP, or (2)DA + shees + (2)SCP, then counter it with the following build: GM, sent, GM, sent, spotters. Don't bother getting stomp, it's a waste of power, just use the sentinels to bleed eldar models and force off squads in combination with swift mortar strikes. (and consider getting interrogator's armour in t2 here if they don't get dark reapers/wraithlord).

If they go for a ranger build, so either 2x DA + 2x rangers, or 2x DA + rangers + SCP then counter with the following build:
GM, sent, GM, sent, spotters IF the shuriken comes out before the rangers.

OR

GM, sent, GM, GM, spotters if the rangers come out before the shuriken.

The trick to using spotters correctly is to always use the smoke on the target farthest away, as that means they certainly won't be able to shoot back after the 50% range reduction (a target too close may be able to), furthermore using the mortar on a target closer to you enables you to have line of sight behind them. hit the mortar behind them and they fly out of cover into your guardsmen and it usually forces a retreat. Abusing the mortar shell's knockback is pivotal good spotter play. In T2 you also get the incendiary shells that synergise very well with the crossbow pistol/assail and also serve as anti-garrison.

Ogryns used to be the way to go vs eldar but dark reapers have changed that and made the MU very difficult. Essentially all you can is use your chimera very defensively and bleed the eldar as much as you can with the spotters + guardsmen and counter wraithguard by peppering them from maximum range with assault kit stormtroopers. The interrogator's armour can be useful if they don't get rangers. Use it on your stormtroopers so they can get in close and have enough energy for nades still, or to tie things up with your inquisitor. Ogryns can work, but with dark reapers being a thing and all the other tools eldar have (such as entangle into wraithguard fire) I would avoid them. If the eldar starts spamming wraithguard +set-up teams I would recommend getting a manticore, combined with assail and the servo-skull (which increases the inquisitor's sight range and gives her an ability that is akin to farsight [which makes it very strong in synergy with assault kit storms/the manticore]) it will be a god-send.

Use AK storms/chimeras/manticores to stall till you reach t3 while bleeding the eldar as much as possible. If you beat the eldar to t3 spam kasrkins. You will bleed them so much that they will have to concede. If you don't beat them to T3, or are about even economically go for a leman russ otherwise a fire prism will counter your entire army (although melta-kit stormtroopers, or infiltrated melta kasrkin via silently can counter a fire prism if they don't get rangers).

Wraithlords or falcons are countered with a combination of heavy weapon team lascannons (make sure to get the shield as it counters grenades and kinetic pulse, you can even combine it with silently to make the HWT very hard to kill), the inferno pistol on the IQ (my favourite choice on her in this MU, it also butchers any eldar squad you can use judgment on [and finish them off on retreat with a hellfury]) and sentinel missle launchers.

N.B purple seems to be the meta.

[Swift]

Quite helpful since I want to learn the Inquisitor.

[Bahamut]

counter wraithguard by peppering them from maximum range with assault kit stormtroopers. T

at 667 hp HI per model i find it extremely difficult to believe AK stormtroopers can deal substantial damage fast enough to counter wraithguard. Also can't the eldar just ninja gate and catch your manticore? i'm pretty sure that WG, with their retarded high hp pool, can tank base turrets for long enough to kill the manticore

Tho i doubt that an eldar player will go for both DR and WG. Since that won't allow him to get cheese-cannons or anything t3 anytime soon. So i'd say Ogryns are the way to go against WG

[Torpid]

Countering wraithguard is not easy by any means. AK ST outrange them though so if you micro them well enough the WG will never hit you, that said, if you are unlucky they will wipe the ST in one volley, but that's just the MU. The AK ST are great because they also can grenade the shurikens which alongside hellfury makes for easy wipes and they bleed avengers too.

Ogryns don't work so well, even before dark reapers came about a wraithlord will counter-initiate against them extremely well, especially alongside shurikens. Shuriken suppression -> grenades can easily wipe ogryns (it only takes 2 nade to wipe them). One wraithguard volley takes off 2/3 of their hp if it hits fully and attack ground is a thing. You can also combine WG volleys with entangle, mind war, psychic storm, warp throw and suppression to make it rather easy to hit.

Why would the eldar not get both DR and WG? They're both pretty good counters to a chimera and DR offer on demand suppression that alongside their inferno damage + WG makes ogryns pretty useless. Meanwhile they're still relevant against all other IG infantry, in fact, like the WG they're HI so they're quite resistant to lasguns. Not to mention they kill sentinels pretty easily. WG gen bash so fast that if you just try to fast-tech on a chimera alone you're going to lose all power and it won't work. That's why you play defensively and stall, forces off squads one by one with manticore volleys combined with assail and bleeding the eldar as much as possible with the GM/chim combo and AK ST.

Also, a tip when using manticores - like snipers and artillery squads move them around after every engagement or few volleys fired in the case of the manticore.

[Bahamut]

I know.. it's just that WG In general seem to have just way too much hp but it seems I'm the only one that feels that way and I guess opening a balance thread about WG hp pool will cause un measured ammounts of nerd rage. Each WG model has the exact same effective hp in melee than an ASM model but at the same time it has more effective hp against range.. but of course they cost less than a ASM model to reinforce and the giant fact that they are not meant to melee units and they are generally in a safer spot than ASM

About ogryms vs WG. Getting into melee against eldars ia not difficult at all. Staying in melee is very, very hard tho (tottaly the opposite than SM) so that "just melee the WG" usual answer is alot easier said than done. But at least ogryms are the only squad with an actual chance of punishing ths eldar for getting them since from my experience GM plasma guns are not good enough to really hurt a 2k hp squad that costs only 50 power

[Ace of Swords]

If ogryns get in melee you have already won, it's getting there that's impossible, between warp throw,entrangling web and doom/guide raping them from 9000 kilometers or the grav blade stopping them.

Though I think WGs overall are fine, they should go back to their old speed since they can now use gates/transports, and also guide is kinda insane on them.

For the rest as IG you just need to do what you can to tie them up and that's usually means getting the right wargear on your hero.

[Toilailee]

Everytime I read Torpid's posts I think it's like he plays a completely different game.

Catachans won't do jack shit vs high mobility units like DAs and certaintly won't bleed them. Only reason they might work is that if eldar gets 3 DAs and shees he most likely can't afford a ranger so booby traps might do some work vs wl/wse.. (didn't read further than that)...

But tbh I have not seen 3 DA + shees even once in any game mode.

[Torpid]

Toil, you know I hate catachans as much as you and I petitioned for ages to get them their power cost reduction, that said vs a build that involves lots of LI, expensive melee units AND no suppression catachans are a no-brainer. The eldar can't approach the catachans at all and their abilities make such a build worthless vs IG. Nobody does it often, but when did I say that they do? I've played against PhatE before and he has done this and wurgl used to do it too as have a few other less competent retail players. Getting catachans here is one of the few times in which it may be useful to get them as their weaknesses of not being very good against suppression and not being very good at pushing against defensive forces are negated since this Eldar composition isn't very defensive at all and contains no suppression.

This rambling is meant to cover the vast majority of the situations you may find yourself in when you play this matchup. It might be helpful if you would read the rest of it?

[Toilailee]

Yah you have a point, if eldar has no t1.5 units eldar can't approach them in t1. In t2 upgraded DAs will completely shut catas down tho.

Altho I am quite sure Wurgl never used 3da + shees vs ig since I was his second favorite ranting partner (after his holyness). He was quite convinced that shees were absolutely useless vs ig in t1 and stopped using them vs ig, and keep in mind he didn't play much elite and was used to sents having stomp out of the gate. He did use 3da tho typically with 1 or 2 shuris and ecomoved 1da in t2, but never with shees.


Sorry about my outburst there... carry on.

[Ace of Swords]

To be honest shees are pretty good vs IG even if the sent had the stomp right off the bat, it's not really that hard to bait and dodge considering how fast they are and FoF aswell, but aside from that, what really will make you regret getting shees are precisely catachans, they will brutally destroy shees making them bleed really hard and feeding XP while doing pratically nothing.

That's the reason why you shouldn't get shees against IG, though I've found out that if the IG players doesn't get catas but goes for spotters/hwt or other builds, in that case shees are very effective and become even more so later in the game vs stuff like stormtroopers/ogryns/manti/kaserkins/heros (with the exception of the inq) and still retain a degree of effectivness as pathblocking and damaging the rest of vehicles.

[Torpid]

T2 shees can be a great purchase vs IG, especially the LG, but only like you say, if they have no catachans.

@Toil Wurgl did it vs practically everything about 8months or so ago when he was playing elite a lot, I don't think he did it in retail at all and even when he did it in elite he didn't think it was great but was just doing it for the lulz of it, but he did do it quite a lot.

[PhatE]

That was me being far more optimistic than I should have been playing those games. I tended to add a shuriken as well which was so so. It had worked a few times in certain instances but it was evidentially too much of an investment for what I was trying to achieve as it had been stopped more than enough times deeming it an unfavourable build in my eyes.

It was fun trying it out regardless. I wouldn't rule it though, I'm sure someone will make it work. Maybe with the new HP buff for banshee's I'll go back to it as I did like it a lot.

I've learnt my lesson.

[Commissar Vocaloid]

Perhaps I'm one of the few IG players who will say this, but I try to avoid manticores as much as possible because of how risky it is to invest in one. Especially considering the IG vs Eldar matchup, with warp spiders or even the WSE himself being both fantastic counters to manticores.

One of my biggest issues is that manticores are inherently difficult to use against most eldar infantry because of FoF, as well as shields (correct me if I'm wrong, but they fully counter manticore shots iirc). For this reason, when you mention getting the manticore as a counter to setup teams and wraithguard, I find it to be often a poor choice - at least for the setup teams - as it's very uncommon that you wont see a setup team behind a shield if you're the aggressor approaching on an encroached position. For the wraithguard, I believe they can tank a lot of the damage from a manticore, but I suppose the reason you mention WG is that you'll often force a retreat, and seeing as they are often the biggest threat to IG T2, that's a big deal. So I can definitely agree on the point of purchasing them for that reason alone.

Nonetheless, I guess I'm just not comfortable with 'em. Too easy to avoid, and it is rare to get the desired result you want - bleeding eldar.

Overall, I find it's just T2 as IG that I find to be annoying, if facing off against eldar. I find that you'll typically need to focus a lot more on your micro more than anything else, and as it has been mentioned, it's often imperative you get the right wargear on your commander to help alleviate much of the T2 IG problems against the damn space elves. There's no real T2 purchase, in my own playing style, that is generally a safe purchase to get against eldar with the exception of possibly the chimera (though circumstantial).

[Ace of Swords]

Depends on the map really, on calderis a manti is quite easy to defend even against a WSE, though I would still go for a manti, the simply fact that you can make the eldar get out of their hiding places or prevent caps is a huge advantages for the IG player, it gives you time to move in without taking many or any losses before he can reposition, while, with some luck, inflicting some model losses.

[Torpid]

On calderis a manticore barrage coming from a manticore at one natural VP firing at a shuriken emplacement at the side of the contested VP closest to the enemy's natural BP is easily dodged purely by moving the shuriken backwards and re-setting-up.

Manticores are overrated and I do use them rarely myself. I prefer to use sentinels missles + AK ST to deal with the WG. Manticores are needed though if there are multiple WG and/or multiple shurikens blobbing together.

[Rataxas]

Everytime I read Torpid's posts I think it's like he plays a completely different game.

Catachans won't do jack shit vs high mobility units like DAs and certaintly won't bleed them. Only reason they might work is that if eldar gets 3 DAs and shees he most likely can't afford a ranger so booby traps might do some work vs wl/wse.. (didn't read further than that)...

But tbh I have not seen 3 DA + shees even once in any game mode.

So we both now can drink vodka in on one table now

[Commissar Vocaloid]

On calderis a manticore barrage coming from a manticore at one natural VP firing at a shuriken emplacement at the side of the contested VP closest to the enemy's natural BP is easily dodged purely by moving the shuriken backwards and re-setting-up.

Manticores are overrated and I do use them rarely myself. I prefer to use sentinels missles + AK ST to deal with the WG. Manticores are needed though if there are multiple WG and/or multiple shurikens blobbing together.

I hear you on the sentinels. It's one of the few things I think that help the T2 game as IG vs Eldar provided you can micro 'em well.

[Flash]

I did 3 DA + shees earlier this morning . But it was 3v3 on calderis