Dawn of War Codex

So let me start it again. I'll be really quick this time because the matter should not even be a problem for sane people who at least have a couple of brain cells.

Something that increases received damage should not be stronger (percentage wise) than abilities that increase damage output of one particular unit. This is an axiom. Does it need to be explained? Looks like it does...

If we buff damage output of one particular unit by 30% then this unit will be doing this increased damage to any enemy's unit. If we debuff enemy unit's defence by 40% then this unit will be receiving this increased damage from absolutely every unit on the field. Do you even understand the logic? If we have something that can reach an incredibly high damage potential just by involving more and more units then how is it allowed to increase damage output even of one unit for such a high percentage?

Such powerful debuffs can be justified if they are accesible only in higher tiers (T2/T3) and have a huge cost. And here is what we do have in the game:
Farseer has her Doombringer which is a T1 weapon that comes with an ability to increase received damage of one unit by 40%. Just think of it as a weapon that comes with an ability to buff friendly unit's damage output by 40% at will. Pretty juicy, isn't it? And now recall how it goes in the game. All your units are buffed by 40% and can lawfully disintegrate one enemy's unit. And everyone is like OK with that?.. I am not even talking about Techmarine's Mark Target. The same principle is applied here. But do notice that it is a T2 wargear whereas that motherbitchFarseer can cheat in T1 only for 100/25. if it is somehow BALANCED and justifiable according to you then I am really done proposing balance changes here.

My solution remains. 25% for Mark Target, 20% for Doom.

its part of the game ...
debuffs are usually stronger than buffs ...

but there are some situations where it is not. for example buffing a pdev can be more powerful than debuffing a single unit.

just deal with it

or use debuffs on your won.

Sub_Zero wrote:motherbitchFarseer

I get the feeling you're pissed off as you were writing this topic.

While I do agree that Mark Target's debuff is lulzworthy most of the times, Eldar in T1 sure have a much higher DPS conpared to SM.

However, it's offset by how fragile Loldar can be and it requires investments to negate that weakness.

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Exactly. The farseer is no techmarine in combat in t1. And guardians/banshees are no tactical marines and eldar get no ASM! Mark target and sternguards is one of the best things ever. Doom is fine. Mark target is OP. It's all to do with the compositions, the raw stats are pretty irrelevant.

However, it's offset by how fragile Loldar can be and it requires investments to negate that weakness.

That is exactly why they have 2 superior defensive T1.5 units that prompt you to attack them. The first one is the best setup team in the game. The second one is one of the most annoying units (if properly used) in the game you can never catch. That is exactly why their all units are so fast, they can just fleet away and choose engagements. That is exactly why guardians can deploy energy shields that block all incoming damage. Their defensive design is more than capable of compensating their fragility in head-on fights. But nothing justifies a broken wargear among their heroes (heads up, there are lots of them, this one is the most broken).

P. S. Has anybody of you felt like an abuser while using these abilities? I can't really use them without the feeling of shame. How easily cursed (affected by one of the abilities) units go down, how hard it is to counter it properly. These abilities are a "I WIN" button. No judgement, no skill, pure abuse.

I am going to assume you jumped your ASM blindly against an Farseer. She put doom on them and they wiped in a matter of seconds. And I see nothing wrong with that because that's what Eldar does. Punishes you for making a mistake or in this case not following the codex which warns against using jumpack to jump blindly into enemy territory. Doom is powerful but its far less effective against careful play since its harder to capitalize on the debuff.

On the matter of Mark Target. I think it should only increase the effectiveness of ranged damage instead of melee and ranged. To kind of give justice the name of the ability and the animation used which is a cross-air.

Don't really feel bad cause IMO that's how Eldar are supposed to be used/played. After all, they are one of the most micro-intensive units.

i actually prefer a hero which is strong on his own instead of a strong debuff once in an engagement.

acutally, those abilties aren't as good as people think they are

Marked target for example, increases damage taken by 50%. What does that really mean? what's effective hp redection? simple

ehp = hp / 1 +/- modifiers/100

so, for the case of marked target it would be:

hp / 1+0.5 = hp / 1.5 => 2/3 hp

This mean that marked target decreases the effective hp of a target by 33%, in other words, it takes 33% less time to kill a unit under marked target that if it wasnt. Tho some people see 50% and believes it is cutting ehp by half, which is absurd

Another way to look at it, is buffing the damage of the units attacking the marked target tho this logic is only valid if marked target is the only multiplier affecting the equation, since marked target would scale multiplicative with damage increase modifiers. Anyway, by this logic marked target increases the damage that units do by 50% only against the marked target. So, in a vacuum scenario, marked target is as good as 3 stacks of inspiration from a FC with power sword, but with the limitation of being active only against 1 squad.

it's really easy to use though; it requires less micro to pull off effectively.

Nuclear Arbitor wrote:it's really easy to use though; it requires less micro to pull off effectively.

less micro than what? battle cry? avatar aura? UYC?

I see mark target for what it modifier does. Which increase damage taken from all sources. And that's all it is really. If a 2 scouts are shooting at something with mark target. Then the affected unit it taking as much damage as what 3 scouts would do to him just from the 2 scouts. That's all it is. No need for an equation.

Bahamut wrote:

Nuclear Arbitor wrote:it's really easy to use though; it requires less micro to pull off effectively.

less micro than what? battle cry? avatar aura? UYC?

anything that requires more than target unit and tell other units to attack same unit. it's an easy way to get a big damage boost.