Dawn of War Codex

Greetings All.

This is my first post on this forum, and I do not actually play DOW2, but I very much enjoy watching Indrid's casts. I've been a 40k fan for a very long time, and used to play Grey Knights on table top. I think that Caeltos has done a truly outstanding job with inserting GK into Elite, but it's a faction-in-progress. I decided to join the forums and make this topic on another viewer of Indrid's casts suggestion. It will concern the GK's Anti-Vehicle.

It has become painfully clear that GK as they currently are cannot proficiently combat Tier 3 armor without support from another faction. It is also well-known that one of the only AV squads GK possess, Paladins, will be limited to one squad in the next update, further crippling AV capability. While the reasons for this limitation are understandable because of how powerful the Paladin squad is, the AV problem must still be addressed. Here are some solutions that I would like to present for consideration.




The Vindicare Assassin
The initial introduction of the VA was much needed. It gave the GK another sub-commander option and effective T2 AV that didn't previously exist. The VA was soon nerfed, and for good reason. His AV rounds did far too much damage and snared the target. However, the current VA is, for the most part, useless. His damage is still good enough to make him a threat to T2 AV, but but not T3. This makes the VA a risky and expensive purchase that does not scale well.

My proposal is to return the VA's ability to snare vehicles as a purchasable T3 upgrade. This way, the VA can be used in combination with Paladins. Paladins alone are incredibly slow, and can be countered by kiting them and shooting from range. The VA's snare will allow them to become a greater, but not imbalanced, threat to T3 vehicles.


Purgation Squad Variant
I tried to think of options that would fit with the DOW2 gameplay-style as well as 40k fluff. The problem is, table top GK don't true AV either. However, I did find a couple feasible concepts. One of which is a Purgation squad variant, similar in design to the Plasma Cannon Devastator squad, equipped with a Conversion Beamer. This would be a T3 unit. According to the 40k Wiki, a Conversion Beamer can be wielded by members of the Inquisition on rare occasion. That's good enough for me to say that CB-wielding Purgation could be both a fluff and Elite mod gameplay-friendly T3 AV unit.


Inquisitorial Henchmen
This option would add the most the faction overall, but would also be the hardest to accomplish. In table top, many GK players would use Inquisitorial Henchmen squads with lots of Psykers as AV. My idea is that this squad would be similar to Kommandos or Kasarkins in DOW2; an elite and specialized T3 squad.




Please comment, critique, and discuss.

- Kcets

Mostly disagree with VA being not good enough. Against LR of any variant they're not very potent, but they do fine against tanks. Mindblades plus the range and dmg booster ability that is has works well. And next patch when infiltrated doesn't break the game it will be downright deadly.

On the topic of conversion beamer; fluff science makes my brain hurt with how not science like it is . No 'fense. I've always wanted an arty piece for gk, but I'm not sure it's needed. Someone more qualified than me can speak on such matters. But awesome for actually finding options for gk that fit fluff and serve a gameplay role. As you said, they're roster is lacking.

Paladins with a Psycannon are more than solid AV, but are very close range. No denying they are good, very good, but for super unit cost on a heavy melee squad they damn well better scare the shit outta vehicles. However, I agree with them being limited to 1.

When faced with, for ex., a Dread/WL in T2 where it's my problem, the counter is usually Vindicare/LasRhino + Psycannon Purgations. Yeah it's expensive but add in a SS Psycannon and there's enough threats to act as a vehicle counter, with the flipside that all those squads are good against infantry too. The downside is your only snare comes from the shittest squad in the roster, Interceptors, so it's very hard to wipe vehicles unless it was badly positioned by the other player.

Getting the Librarian and trying to use Shrouding on Purgations to act as AV is just telling your opponent "Here I'm generous, get another vehicle and you winz. EZ."

The problem with giving the Vindicare the snare is he is hard countered by snipers, snipe-like attacks and basically anything that can deal ~425 damage in a short space of time. He's situational.

Missile Launcher on the Dreadnough plz

Flash wrote:Mostly disagree with VA being not good enough. Against LR of any variant they're not very potent, but they do fine against tanks. Mindblades plus the range and dmg booster ability that is has works well. And next patch when infiltrated doesn't break the game it will be downright deadly.

I'am suggesting why not give VA the ability to Snare vehicles since its Op if he retains his Snare-per shot with Turbo-perpetrator. Even if u buffed him up. He's vulnerable and susceptible to all damage sources he can't hit a moving target easily, Unless Piggback RB or WATH. So why not give VA the ability to snare instead ??


On the topic of conversion beamer; fluff science makes my brain hurt with how not science like it is . No 'fense. I've always wanted an arty piece for gk, but I'm not sure it's needed. Someone more qualified than me can speak on such matters. But awesome for actually finding options for gk that fit fluff and serve a gameplay role. As you said, they're roster is lacking.

GK lacks some form of long-range AV firepower like Las-cannons/Artillery and strong vehicles i guess in t3 . I think its good should Purgation receive that Upgrade in T3/T2 ,make em more useful?
Their overall AV is just mainly X + X +X + X to work during situations ,its just Paladins fulfilling their AV role come T3

I don't understand people who think that vindicare is hard to keep alive (thus being risky)... but so I can't understand people who think that sentinel has problems with surviveability in t2 :S
and they don't lack long-range AV

Flash wrote:Mostly disagree with VA being not good enough. Against LR of any variant they're not very potent, but they do fine against tanks. Mindblades plus the range and dmg booster ability that is has works well. And next patch when infiltrated doesn't break the game it will be downright deadly.

I agree that the VA is a good AV unit, but in my opinion only for T2. My problem is that not only is he ineffective vs most T3 armor, but other units that come with T3 can take care of him all too easily. I would say this is fair if he is able to receive his snare in T3 as I suggested; which would make him a more present threat. His level of usefulness changes far too much between T2 and T3.

Kvek wrote:I don't understand people who think that vindicare is hard to keep alive (thus being risky)... but so I can't understand people who think that sentinel has problems with surviveability in t2 :S
and they don't lack long-range AV

What would you say is GK's long-range AV?

I like the snare idea as a T3 upgrade. It gives some nice synergies with Paladins. And it's true the upcoming patch will make GK AV weaker (no Melter-Dread, no Purge and limited Paladins) so an improvement on the AV department is dire needed. The snare is a nice approach.

I'd say their AV is fine (expensive for sure, but also good against infantry as well as vehicles), but I'm still at a loss as to why the GK dread is having the melta completely removed

An important thing about paladins: If your opponent has a tank but is lacking in SHI counters like stuns and overwhelming plasma weaponry, sometimes you just have to teleport behind the tank, activate mind blades, and start smashing things. Yes it's risky, but very few people expect offensive teleports from terminators of any kind in the current meta so you can often kill the tank very quickly.

Not if the player is attentive. A tank can easily escape unless he has some pathing issues. Ok maybe you get a Fire Prism with the the additional Psycanon.

Also, chances are you're going to lose your paladins doing that. Not a good trade.

Kcets wrote:Also, chances are you're going to lose your paladins doing that. Not a good trade.

Not if you have Nemesis warding Staff/WATH to greatly support em ,that 30% Damage mitigation can turn situations around. They can severely crippled if not destroy the Landraiders/ Predators/Walkers and still get away safety .
Especially if TL is paired with Paladins ,Purge/Inspire/Cloak + Mind blades buffs onto Paladins/Halberiders . Just VA losing his signature Snare really screws up the Synergy between him & Paladins against Super-units/Vehicles.

Kcets wrote:Also, chances are you're going to lose your paladins doing that. Not a good trade.

Radio the Forest wrote:If your opponent has a tank but is lacking in SHI counters like stuns and overwhelming plasma weaponry

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:Especially if TL is paired with Paladins ,Purge/Inspire/Cloak

Purge will be removed next patch and replaced with something else. Not sure why, the GK libby isn't exactly omfg OP right now outside of his smite combo (and even that is debatable).

Also note that Exitus Rounds do more damage to SHI targets such as the GUO and avatar than the AV rounds do.

With WATH and Mind Blades, Paladins with a Psycannon will wipe any normal tank if the teleport is used offensively and the tank's pathing isn't perfect. Prisms wipe anyway.

But you rely on allied support to stop your Terminators getting deleted. Namely a Fire Prism, Creeping Barrage, Warp or something to stop the massive gangbang on your Terminators that follows.

HandSome SoddiNg wrote:

Kcets wrote:Also, chances are you're going to lose your paladins doing that. Not a good trade.

Not if you have Nemesis warding Staff/WATH to greatly support em ,that 30% Damage mitigation can turn situations around. They can severely crippled if not destroy the Landraiders/ Predators/Walkers and still get away safety .
Especially if TL is paired with Paladins ,Purge/Inspire/Cloak + Mind blades buffs onto Paladins/Halberiders . Just VA losing his signature Snare really screws up the Synergy between him & Paladins against Super-units/Vehicles.

So basically you are saying that there is a chance if you activate 38 spells against his one vehicle? Sounds like great AV to me.

You only need two: WATH and mind blades, which is a global. Paladins do 240 heavy melee dps with mind blades, which is 120 dps against vehicles. But that's actually a lot more, since the ranged pew pew from the pyscannon does around 50 or so damage and you'll be hitting rear armor with the hammers.

Of the GK libby's abilities, only shrouding really helps with AV, in theory Might of Titan and Purge would as well, but that only helps with killing melee vehicles/entities, since their cast range to too short and the GK libby is too slow to get near tanks/transports.

The issue here is that GK do have good AV in the form of Paladins, but you need to have a lot of synergy with other units. All other factions have immediate answers to armor: lascannon units, venom cannons, tank-busters, etc.

Kcets wrote:The issue here is that GK do have good AV in the form of Paladins, but you need to have a lot of synergy with other units. All other factions have immediate answers to armor: lascannon units, venom cannons, tank-busters, etc.

Exactly. They need something with sustain too - not a 1-model army which has to retreat as soon as something smells like melee around it or gets hooked.

If you're vs a LA you're probably already baselocked in t1, and no I'm not exaggerating.

Anyways, you can just buy purgation and give them pyscannons, and yes they're expensive and need all of their models to function and have a relatively short range compared to most dedicated AV but they also do decent dps and are solid against infantry too, they'll win most fights unless up against something with plasma or inferno damage.