How do GM IG Lasguns behave?

[Lag]

I remember crying about GM not doing enough damage and people throwing their DPS at me which never made sense. I drop models easier with any other t1 unit, especially the SM models.

Now I don't know if anyone else noticed this but their Lasguns do "miss" a lot. At first I though the miss animation is only for visual effect and that the projectiles actually do hit the targets but I noticed that whenever I focus, for example, a power farm which is bunched up - not only the building which I targeted takes the damage. No other hitscan weapon does that.

So what I'm asking is - does the GM DPS really hit the one target, or is the damage dealing spread randomly out on a small area?

[Orkfaeller]

Yeah, I noticed that to, you focus a generator and the one behind it seems to take chip damage.

But are Guardsmen really the only ones that have "hit scan" weapons that do that?
I once had a IG Las Cannon team hitting my own tank when fireing at enemy infantry, so...

[FiSH]

I noticed the same thing with shootas when they are hitting gens.

[Faultron]

all standard ranged weapons has 80% accuracy vs regular infantry, vs genfarm this is 90% i think.

lasguns has a special trait also, they do penetrate through the enemy.
i clicked on shooting the generator and they penetrate through and damaged the power node as well.acts like ,flamer'.I am not sure if this works vs infantry but i guess it works same.(this was not a missfire damage to power node for sure, after i switched target to shoot power node primarly, and they couldnt do any dmg on the generator which was at front of it)
and another thing why they cant bleed ur enemy is cos of high model count and low dps.all models target other model from enemy squad, more model u shoot from more ,inaccurate' it is, this is where sentinel helps u out.

[Orkfaeller]

Feels like a could play this game for 10 years and still get suprised/confused on some of its strange mechanics..

[Nuclear Arbitor]

I don't remember what the term is but it's something akin to scatter. there was a big patch in ret (or maybe it was CR) that changed that value for bolters. what happens is that the damage gets spread to enemy things behind the targeted unit, be the gens, other squads, whatever. the overall effect is that their damage is more spread out. bolters, and something else that got patched even earlier, still do it btw, just not as much as they used to.

[Caeltos]

Yeah, Tactical Marines had the same trait of scatter on generators, making them fairly ineffective at genbashing, since the damage kept being spread through all the gens for the most part.

It was during vanilla when they changed it. It was around TiOW/1.8 or something

[Lag]

So basically ALL weapons do this? Are all weapons similarly inaccurate? I need to test this on the weekend.

[Torpid]

Rate of fire isn't an actual thing in this game is it? Despite the animation for shootas making it appear like they are firing more than tacs, they still proc damage at the same rate right? I initially thought but ROF could influence it because you know, more bullets fired = higher percentage of bullets that miss = higher amount of scattered damage, but then, I don't even think there is a ROF function at all in this game, however there is a reload function...

[FiSH]

Rate of fire isn't an actual thing in this game is it? Despite the animation for shootas making it appear like they are firing more than tacs, they still proc damage at the same rate right? I initially thought but ROF could influence it because you know, more bullets fired = higher percentage of bullets that miss = higher amount of scattered damage, but then, I don't even think there is a ROF function at all in this game, however there is a reload function...

pretty certain RoF is how fast you go through a clip, whereas reload is changing that clip.
so a shoota will shoot in like 5 (not really sure how many) discrete small bursts, will reload, and so forth. this effect is quite evident from a loota.

[Lulgrim]

pretty certain RoF is how fast you go through a clip, whereas reload is changing that clip.
so a shoota will shoot in like 5 (not really sure how many) discrete small bursts, will reload, and so forth. this effect is quite evident from a loota.

So basically you have no clue about the basic weapon stats/mechanics... Please refrain from comments that start with "pretty certain" if you really don't know.

[FiSH]

sorry, was just going from things i've observed in game.
my understanding of the mechanic is that RoF is proportionate to dmg and the inverse of burst duration. but if this is wrong, care to elaborate then?

[Lulgrim]

What dictates the number of shots/bursts before reloading is reload frequency.

[Broodwich]

Iirc scatter is the angle behind the target where a missed round would essentially re roll it's chance of hitting something. So if your shot misses, in the angle behind it dictated by scatter it has a chance of hitting another model(s?)

That's what I remember from coh like 5 years ago when I looked it up. Christ and last night I went to the pharmacy and forgot to get my pills

ps lol hit scan

[Faultron]

in my opinion doesnt work like that.
ingame, they dont share or do less dmg for the main target, but they ,penetrate' it like laser:D so it is not scatter dmg or missed bullets.

they do the same damage(80-90%) to the target behind the main target, which is huge.
thats not missing bullets:) but the damage lowers with range, like 10-15 range away from the main target they do almost no dmg.(and u have to be close to the main target with ur unit i think)
Maybe i am wrong with this, but ingame i see this thing is happening like this exactly.

The reason why they do ,low dmg' to the main target is that they have low raw dps, and high model count(this is only problem vs enemy infatntry with high model count),+ shit bleeed, cos they target different target from enemy unit.
but u can micro them way better then other standard ranged weapons cos they have 1 sec burst time instead of 2., in tier 2 this becomes even better with the retreat trick.sentiels helps out to bleed ur enemy since he target one model usually(he is 1 model unit xD).


i cant upload any screenshot or replay, something is wrong with the site? or i just dumb:)

[FiSH]

What dictates the number of shots/bursts before reloading is reload frequency.

ok, thanks.
can you also explain how reload frequency=0 works?
i'm going from the values of shuriken and brightlance from retail:
http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution/E ... ken_Cannon
http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution/E ... rightlance

(my guess on reload duration = 0 is that these platforms don't reload, but they still have a burst type animation, so i'm confused)

[Nuclear Arbitor]

yeah, they just keep bursting. if you watch a brightlance you can see it because the beam intensity changes a bit.

and firing more doesn't make you less accurate, it just means that the chance to hit, whatever it is, get's rolled more often.

[Faultron]

What dictates the number of shots/bursts before reloading is reload frequency.

ok, thanks.
can you also explain how reload frequency=0 works?
i'm going from the values of shuriken and brightlance from retail:
http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution/E ... ken_Cannon
http://dow.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution/E ... rightlance

(my guess on reload duration = 0 is that these platforms don't reload, but they still have a burst type animation, so i'm confused)

reload frequency:
displays the number, how many burst shot burst or single he can do without reloading.

shuriken has 0 means he can shoot every time without any reload.
brightlance has no reload restrictions, but has wind down which means after every shot he has to take a break:).it is almost the same like a cooldown.
shuriken burst is 2 sec means he fires 2sec to do the full dmg , than takes a 0,5 sec break.(cooldown) but never need reloads.

[Lulgrim]

Wrong, according to the formulas the base damage is applied once for every second of burst. In the SCP case, see how it has 300 base damage with 2 burst and 0.5 cooldown and no other downtime. That means 600 damage each 2.5 seconds = 240 damage per second.

As I have explained this is what fucks up the missile DPS values as they have a burst (for animation reasons maybe) yet they fire 1 missile and not 0.6 or whatever as the burst value suggests to the formula.

I don't know what ROF does exactly (does it do anything? a lot of values aren't actually used) -- it could be the granularity of the burst, for example. I.e. how many portions/increments the damage is applied in.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

does it provide information for graphics, like when to spawn particles and stuff?

[Lulgrim]

As far as I can see it is not included when calling fx, haven't tested it though.

[Uncle Milty]

From our work on the tooltips i can state that what lulgrim sais is absolutely correct.
We found the Lasturret from the banewolf doing 34 damage_hp, a 1 second burst and a rate of fire of 17 or so. Basically we first thought that in a burst, 17 shots are fired and each is doing 34 damage what would be ridiculous dps.
Rate of fire does not contribute to ingame damage mechanics as far as we can say (haven't found a weapon where it does).
Apart from that i think it really is a value that determines how many visual projectiles are fired but this also is merely a conclusion.
In fact it could be that damage_hp value is devided by rate of fire and linked to each projectile what doesn't effect the dps but explaines fire on the move damage distribution.