Lictor Alpha's Pheromone Cloud

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

Last day in a 3vs3 I faced a Lictor Alpha in my lane with triple hormagaunt + Pheromone Cloud. I already knew that Pheromone Cloud reinforce any Tyrannid nearby, but also at the same time I saw some debuff rings on my heretics when they were near to that cloud.

I was surprised, and I decide to see the wiki

Cost of the accessory: 115 req/20 energy
Emits a cloud of pheromones at the target location that lasts 18 seconds and allows allied infantry to reinforce. Enemy infantry within radius 15 of the cloud have their damage reduced by 30%. 50 second cooldown.

Even if I found it a bit OP, if we have in mind the cost, the duration of the ability, the low cooldown, and the Tyrannid eco, I can deal with it. (at least with Chaos)

But why also the 30% damage debuff? I mean, is an I WIN ability in T1. If the Tyrannid go for a melee build, if the have in mind that the Lictor Alpha counters by himself the setup teams, there are really few ways to counter that combo.

[Ace of Swords]

Pheromone is not even a problem in T1, though as far as I know it's the only T1 mobile reinforce point in exsistence, the problem is that with endless swarm it becomes utterely retarded and not even nobs or a seer council can beat hormagants under pheromone.

[Sub_Zero]

I find a lot of ways to fix it. Lower the debuff effect (from 30% to 10%-15%), decrease the duration (from 18 to 12-15), increase the cost (100/30). Don't wanna see something removed but adjustments have to be made.

[Raffa]

Last day in a 3vs3 I faced a Lictor Alpha in my lane with triple hormagaunt + Pheromone Cloud. I already knew that Pheromone Cloud reinforce any Tyrannid nearby, but also at the same time I saw some debuff rings on my heretics when they were near to that cloud.

Yeh I know the guy. His name is Frenchman and he's no different to people who justify hacking games. The cloud lets you turn spamming Melee units into a whirling death ball while lictor snipes squad leaders/heroes into the middle of the blob. You literally can't do anything to save some squads/heroes. It's pure abuse.

And +1 to Ace

[Commissar Vocaloid]

Yeah, pheromone`s 30% damage reduction is ridiculous. Thought I could use PC with fetid for suppression + blight grenades on top of which, 2 x AC heretics but they could just heal through it no problem because of the reduced damage. My only mistake was not being able to use touch of nurgle, but initial engagement did not give me the required red so it didn't matter.

The duration is also long for such a large debuff.

[Sub_Zero]

and he's no different to people who justify hacking games.

And he is pretty bad with that build and I don't know why his style of play can be considered as cheap or something like that.

the problem is that with endless swarm it becomes utterely retarded and not even nobs or a seer council can beat hormagants under pheromone.

Why do you need such units to beat incredibly vulnerable to aoe attacks melee blob? There are lots of other ways to deal with them with no problems.

[DarkGod]

The replay of the game that the triple horma plus pheromone cloud was used in isbon indrid's channel. I watched it a few days ago. To be fair although the hormas had endless swarm and pheromone cloud, an eldritch storm wiped frenchman's army. Then another eldritch wiped it again. So it was kinda lulz but I agree it is rather abusive in a 1v1 situation. Of course a bane wolf easily counters it?

[Vapor]

Lol just had another game vs frenchman. Seriously, once t2 endless swarm hits, that melee blob is almost invulnerable, I watched as a blight nade took all of the hormas to like 1/10 health but they all reinforced back up to full strength before any of them could be wiped.

The build can be dealt with but it's a huge pain in the ass. Landing a few sweet nades or artillery shots isn't enough since the hormas reinforce too quickly to be wiped.

I did manage to wipe his entire army yet again with an Eldritch.

[Commissar Vocaloid]

Lol just had another game vs frenchman. Seriously, once t2 endless swarm hits, that melee blob is almost invulnerable, I watched as a blight nade took all of the hormas to like 1/10 health but they all reinforced back up to full strength before any of them could be wiped.

The build can be dealt with but it's a huge pain in the ass. Landing a few sweet nades or artillery shots isn't enough since the hormas reinforce too quickly to be wiped.

I did manage to wipe his entire army yet again with an Eldritch.

I think that for t1, it's considerably strong (t2 endless aside). Counter-able, but the swarm mentality has its benefits for being hard to focus down each squad effectively (unless you have suppression in abundance). I'm actually curious how this build would work in 1v1 against certain factions. In particular, against something like GK - the obvious counter would seem to be purgation, but based on my limited understanding of the mechanics, I'm not sure if they're range and rate of suppression would be enough to suppress a blob of 4 horma's. I'd actually like to see those sort of match ups for curiosity's sake.

[Kvek]

Doing it vs GK would be a suicude, the 90% snare in an area is just nuts, and in t2, oh well.... poor nids

[Commissar Vocaloid]

Doing it vs GK would be a suicude, the 90% snare in an area is just nuts, and in t2, oh well.... poor nids

I've noticed in some videos that it has a weird way of suppressing blobs. I'm assuming the suppression come from units being hit by the flame aoe, opposite to say havocs who suppress anything in their firing arc. With that in mind, if the blob was spread out, would it have the same effect?

[Torpid]

PC can deal with it easily with Icon/bile sewer/pestilence, then a khorne dread and double TCSM will rip a nid melee build to bits alongside havocs.

[Indrid]

Yeah I decimated frenchman's build with Spewer/nades/Fetid and ToN tics.

Can see how it would be annoying for others, but he never uses Zoans so just layer suppression and try not to engage directly when Pheromone is up. You'll lose out in the very early game but should be able to dominate afterwards.

As for the ability itself, it's pretty nice but means the LA can't be off owning entire armies with Lone Hunter + Stalk and/or otherwise harassing stuff.

[Ace of Swords]

As for the ability itself, it's pretty nice but means the LA can't be off owning entire armies with Lone Hunter + Stalk and/or otherwise harassing stuff.

you can just drop the pheromones and swap wargear.................................

[Indrid]

And then what? Walk away to the other side of the map? He's not getting the benefit from Lone Hunter if he is using Pheromone on allies. Can't realistically use both effectively that well.

[Bahamut]

melee builds vs chaos are futile, no matter what race it is. Simply chaos have too many ways to deal with melee. In t1 chaos got heretics and havoc, in t2 they can add blood letters and plague marines and even dreadnoughts. And that's not even counting Heroes.

Against tyranids you need some heretics and blood letters. the blood letters go for warriors with help from the tics. Doesnt really matter if they are being supported by pheromones, the synapse backslashes will just tear the nid blob apart. Fun fact, warrior zombies from plague sword will also trigger synapse backslash to the tyranid player

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

I don't fear Lictor Alpha + Pheromone Cloud + Hormagaunt Spam on the hands of a mediocre player, and even less with Chaos and my Chaos Lord. Heretics Spam in T1, Blood Maul, Inferno and Daemonic Visage and some AOE attacks. Or some GUO or MoN Predators

I fear that build on the hands of a skillful player, which don't eat AOE, don't eat nukes and includes in the build Warriors with Melee Synapse, full upgrade the Hormagaunts, Genestealers and a Zoanthrope to heal.

Then I start to prey to the Dark Gods.

[Torpid]

Fun fact, warrior zombies from plague sword will also trigger synapse backslash to the tyranid player

Nice, I never knew that, so plague of undeath is viable vs both chaos and nids, interesting.

[Dark Riku]

Nice, I never knew that, so plague of undeath is viable vs both chaos and nids, interesting.

I wouldn't go as far as viable. That thing could use some buffs imo. In my experience it's only ever used in 3v3 for maximum trolling or by accidentally activating the ability ^^

[Bahamut]

in 1v1 might me crappy as you have to be already winning the engagement so is just wasted red. 2v2/3v3 it can be freaking awesome against orks/nids

[Torpid]

Tell me it isn't viable the next time I face a triple tic build vs my PC and a big early t2 engagement starts. I just excitedly hover my fingers over that number-pad waiting to doomblast endless heretics and wipe squads

[Ace of Swords]

And then what? Walk away to the other side of the map? He's not getting the benefit from Lone Hunter if he is using Pheromone on allies. Can't realistically use both effectively that well.

yes? Win the engagment with pheromone and then park the LA with lone hunter at the vp? really? how hard is to do this, it's just unecessary most of the time because getting force once vs nids means losing the whole map and twice all your power farm and that's GG but this is perfectly viable.

Fun fact, warrior zombies from plague sword will also trigger synapse backslash to the tyranid playe

I guess this is just a bug.

[Indrid]

I don't think it's that viable practically, I'd like to see you try it. Theorycrafting about what you can do is one thing but actually pulling it off (or simply having the balls to try it) in a game is very different. You rarely see wargear-switching plays especially one like this that requires completely different positioning and engagement for each.

[Torpid]

I agree with Indrid, good LH play isn't going to be sitting at one VP, no, it is going around capping a while 35% of the map and forcing off all cappers, like on fedrid you just cap the contested eastern vp+req and then move around to the central power node via their power and can easily come back and nothing can really do much, the time you go to pheromone at the natural VP area some scouts have crept in behind the LA and de-capped the eastern points so you're not doing the LH job.

[frenchman]

In all fairness the build is super easy to counter - vials and blight grenades can wipe everything. The rec bleed before endless swarm is also very painful. I've lost my entire army to eldritch more times then I care to count.
Once you ding T2 with ES and melee synapse then it really starts to shine. You have 2k hp squads of hormas. They also count as 8 pop so your pop is going to be in the 30s with a warrior squad, so maintenance is pretty low.
Pheromones more or less just make the triple or quadruple hormas (tentatively) viable in T1 until the T2 buffs kick in. Which assumes you can maintain map control and your squads in T1 - which is not a given, especially if your opponents know what shenanigans you're up to

[Lag]

It's not super easy to counter, especially as one mistake means 1-2 wiped squads due to Horma chasing potential which is pretty nice. IMHO it isn't broken though.
The Pheromone Cloud really kicks in in 3v3s I think.

[Dark Riku]

It's not super easy to counter, especially as one mistake means 1-2 wiped squads due to Horma chasing potential which is pretty nice. IMHO it isn't broken though. The Pheromone Cloud really kicks in in 3v3s I think.

A reinforce point near your commander wherever you want that can't be destroyed and also debuffs the enemy's army which is available in T1 kicks ass in any game mode if you ask me. ^^

[Maestro Cretella]

In all fairness the build is super easy to counter - vials and blight grenades can wipe everything. The rec bleed before endless swarm is also very painful. I've lost my entire army to eldritch more times then I care to count.
Once you ding T2 with ES and melee synapse then it really starts to shine. You have 2k hp squads of hormas. They also count as 8 pop so your pop is going to be in the 30s with a warrior squad, so maintenance is pretty low.
Pheromones more or less just make the triple or quadruple hormas (tentatively) viable in T1 until the T2 buffs kick in. Which assumes you can maintain map control and your squads in T1 - which is not a given, especially if your opponents know what shenanigans you're up to

It's not easy to counter, which is why you do it every time. It requires very specific, disciplined and knowledgeable counters from very specific heroes. Some heroes don't really have a realistic way to counter it, and must rely instead on simply holding ground and stalling.

[crazyman64335]

i disagree, 1 spore mine squad managed to counter it VERY well (2 hormas died in first fight)

[Sub_Zero]

No wonders. Nids have the best anti-melee T1 unit in the game. I rarely see someone uses it during T2-T3.