eldar

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

When are we gonna fix this race honestly. i play every race at a high lvl except tyranid. And sadly at this moment in time i have to put eldar on the bottom of the list in 1v1. going in this order tyra,orks,chaos.ig/sm, eldar. They rlly have no spot in competetive play atm. i have trouble beating mid lvl players with my eldar grab any of the other races and the game is over in under 10 minutes. they are not in a good spot and i honestly dont know how to approach fixing them. they are something we seriously need to look at, unless we want to leave this race at the bottom of the wagon. there has been no semi finalists maining eldar in our tournaments, this should be taken as a hint.

I dont find the units per say need a buff, but we need to take a serious look at there eco and bleed over cost. the reinforcement costs are so steep that you will tend to be stuck in t2 while other races tech to t3 fighting to hold the map effieicnelty.

here to give u an idea that eldar have no hero over 50% this means nothing?



rank hero % count
1 Lictor Alpha 75.79 72 of 95
2 Chaos Lord 59 59 of 100
3 Warboss 55.7 44 of 79
4 Ravener Alpha 55.56 10 of 18
5 Hive Tyrant 54.84 17 of 31
6 Chaos Sorcerer 52 26 of 50
7 Warlock 49.09 27 of 55
8 Techmarine 48.57 17 of 35
9 Warp Spider Exarch 47.22 17 of 36
10 Apothecary 46.51 40 of 86
11 Mekboy 44.12 15 of 34
12 Farseer 42.11 16 of 38
13 Lord General 41.67 5 of 12
14 Kommando Nob 40 14 of 35
15 Commissar Lord 39.39 13 of 33
16 Force Commander 35.71 25 of 70
17 Inquisitor 33.33 5 of 15
18 Plague Champion 31.11 14 of 45
19 Brother-Captain 22.22 2 of 9

[Tex]

Soul... I totally respect you and enjoy playing with you, but I completely disagree with this post.

Eldar have an amazing set of tools and have a very distinct style of play available to them that NO OTHER RACE HAS, ie) cap cap cap "try and fight me" cap cap cap "gates gates gayts" cap cap cap.

I find that there are a few key match ups that are extremely hard for eldar, some examples would be WSE vs Apo, FC, CL, or BC. Other examples would be FS vs LA, KN, or CL.

I do not find a single match up for the warlock however, unwinnable. He is so incredibly solid, and due to eldar changes in elite (as I have previously highlighted), he is no longer vulnerable at any stage of the game to vehicles (which previously in retail was his ONLY weakness outside of litclaw terminators).

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

im srry i have to disagree at this current time in this games meta and torpid will agree with me. tyranids sm and orks and chaos at this moment clearly out perform eldar.bleed and high req costs for every unit ruins an economy throughout a high lvl game.

[Raffa]

It seems like Eldar is just your weakest race.

Besides it's not much good calling them broken then not suggesting any ways of fixing them, or even pointing out any of your problems with them except their economy and bleed (I disagree).

Believe me, now that HH is back I'm regularly shown why Eldar are anything but UP.

[Asmon]

I believe Eldar (and IG to some extent) require more micro than the other races to get to the same results.

Bleed is certainly high and makes mistakes much more punishing, but you should be able to choose when to fight. That's pretty much it.

@Tex: sure WL has less issue with vehicles now, but still gets no T2/3 weapon worthy of that name.

[Dark Riku]

im srry i have to disagree at this current time in this games meta and torpid will agree with me. tyranids sm and orks and chaos at this moment clearly out perform eldar.bleed and high req costs for every unit ruins an economy throughout a high lvl game.

"I'm sorry I have to disagree" strongly on the SM specific part.
All Eldar units counter SM ones for cheaper and are better at their role -.-
Eldar is more than competitive enough.

sure WL has less issue with vehicles now, but still gets no T2/3 weapon worthy of that name.

Instead he get's a super jedi weapon in T1 and an awesome anti light infantry/turret killer. You're not fooling anyone, the Witchblade of Kurnous is worth it's tier status.
Not to mention the other slots he has available.

[Bahamut]

i think Asmon was referring to a AV t2/3 melee weapon for the WL...

[Batpimp]

riku was pointing out that his weapons are more than enough for his intended role. he doesn't need an av weapon with what the elder army now has as AV

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

I'm sorry I have to disagree" strongly on the SM specific part.
All Eldar units counter SM ones for cheaper and are better at their role -.-
Eldar is more than competitive enough.

im srry sm completely poop on eldar in ever way shape or form. shotguns and ff completely shred poor shees. im srry if u guys think eldar are alright i will gladly have u play nothing but eldar in the tourny and have u show ur self up =)

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

It seems like Eldar is just your weakest race.

Besides it's not much good calling them broken then not suggesting any ways of fixing them, or even pointing out any of your problems with them except their economy and bleed (I disagree).

Believe me, now that HH is back I'm regularly shown why Eldar are anything but UP.

i dont believe they are my weakest no. i have my best stats with them since retail days. i dont think any of there units need a buff per say they suit there role quite well. when need to look at there eco and possibly lowering reinforcement costs a tad. guardians to 25 stead of 30 since they drop faster then damn shootas. i feel like shees should be 30 to 35 and so forth. the bleed is disproportional with there durability and effectiveness.

[Raffa]

i dont believe they are my weakest no. i have my best stats with them since retail days. i dont think any of there units need a buff per say they suit there role quite well. when need to look at there eco and possibly lowering reinforcement costs a tad. guardians to 25 stead of 30 since they drop faster then damn shootas. i feel like shees should be 30 to 35 and so forth. the bleed is disproportional with there durability and effectiveness.

Then you might not have played people who really know how to use Eldar?

I'll be around tomoz and sunday and my usual ally plays Eldar so drop me a line - hopefully your POV will change after some games :p

[Kvek]

His Eldars are quite decent, probably his best race in retail, worst in elite

anyway, I agree that the unit reinforcements are a little bit high, but then they have a lot of ways how to negate bleed (Shields, rangers, shuris etc etc)

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

concerning opponent strength i have played many of the best eldars around. torpid,farzo,ben, pega in retail,tex macro lols, dilosophaurus.in the current meta of this game with sm orks chaos and tyra being where there at eldar are at the bottom. they dont need an overhaul they need tweaks.i remember playing ben when he hopped on elite, his warlock vs my apo in retail would be horrendous for me, but here in elite vs his warlock i comepletely bled him to shit and got him stuck in t2 as i cruised to t3 with 3 or 4 model losses.

[Ace of Swords]

Beside farzo you haven't played any eldar player, tex is good and has good micro but he is not a dedicated eldar player or rather, he's an eldar player just has me (hopefully it's not an offense ) who casually enjoy using them since it's a highskill cap race, go play wurgl,hansmoleman,Asmon and others if you want eldar players.

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

ive watched replays of wurgl getting trolled by sm many a time so idk how thats viable. eldar are at the bottom in the current meta. just played a mediocre tm and theres nothing eldar can do vs him. its a joke. spam 2 assault cannon dreads haha whats a blance

[Codex]

I'll have to give this a good post later but yeah busy times. Just wanted to say I really disagree that Eldar is at the bottom of the pile. That sounds like a massive exaggeration to me, but I know you're being serious Soul.

im srry if u guys think eldar are alright i will gladly have u play nothing but eldar in the tourny and have u show ur self up =)

Challenge accepted.

Was going to cast the next MRT but I guess I'm signing up as Eldar specialist.

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

u know me and how i dont kid. i dont want a click and win race id play cl for that. but they need to be tweaked atm honestly and serious. theyre not far behind the other races some minor tweaks to there eco i think would solve the problem. i am not asking for units buffs or anything. the only unit i would do anything to would be shees and just by making the exarch last member of the squad to die. because shes usually the first and by the time uve bough her the 4th or 5th time 75-25 is a fucking joke

[Bahamut]

rank hero % count
7 Warlock 49.09 27 of 55
8 Techmarine 48.57 17 of 35
9 Warp Spider Exarch 47.22 17 of 36
10 Apothecary 46.51 40 of 86
12 Farseer 42.11 16 of 38
16 Force Commander 35.71 25 of 70

Numbers on this list are too low to really be an trusted indicator but... this data clearly opposes your claim of SM being better than eldar

[Codex]

Yes I do know you and you don't kid. But from personal experience of all the races I bleed least with Eldar, less than Space Marines. Perhaps it's because I favour 1-1-1-1 so much, but their mobility and ability to transition seamlessly from ratting to fighting means that bleed should be minimal anyway.

[[TLV]Soul_Drinkers]

rank hero % count
7 Warlock 49.09 27 of 55
8 Techmarine 48.57 17 of 35
9 Warp Spider Exarch 47.22 17 of 36
10 Apothecary 46.51 40 of 86
12 Farseer 42.11 16 of 38
16 Force Commander 35.71 25 of 70

Numbers on this list are too low to really be an trusted indicator but... this data clearly opposes your claim of SM being better than eldar

on this sm ias a nub friendly race so it sees alot more use and failure as a whole. but concerning sm vs eldar as a match up. sm has all the tools available to maul eldar

[Tex]

perhaps I will have to change my tourney heroes... I am already sporting the wse but...

[Dark Riku]

im srry sm completely poop on eldar in ever way shape or form. shotguns and ff completely shred poor shees.

This isn't even arguing... This topic is a complete waste of time.
"I run my shees into shotgun scouts and enemy SM army head first, hurdhur."

i dont think any of there units need a buff per say they suit there role quite well. when need to look at there eco and possibly lowering reinforcement costs a tad. .... the bleed is disproportional with there durability and effectiveness.

You don't want a buff and then you do? -.- Which one is it?! You don't even know what you want! Hell no. Their bleed isn't disproportional with their effectiveness at all.

on this sm ias a nub friendly race so it sees alot more use and failure as a whole. but concerning sm vs eldar as a match up. sm has all the tools available to maul eldar

Last time I checked all Eldar counter to SM units are cheaper.
Unless the SM player magically shits out more resources it ain't happening.
"SM maul Eldar." Now that is one for the history books.

All I see is whine with nothing to back it up with.

[Asmon]

go play wurgl,hansmoleman and others if you want eldar players.

I'm not quoted. Me sad :'(

[Ace of Swords]

Fixed because asmon was sad

[Torpid]

on this sm ias a nub friendly race so it sees alot more use and failure as a whole. but concerning sm vs eldar as a match up. sm has all the tools available to maul eldar

Last time I checked all Eldar counter to SM units are cheaper.
Unless the SM player magically shits out more resources it ain't happening.
"SM maul Eldar." Now that is one for the history books.

All I see is whine with nothing to back it up with.

Riku it's a well known fact by any decent eldar player that SM are one of the hardest MUs there is for eldar. I would rather fight anything other than an LA/KN if I could avoid fighting SM with my eldar.

The shits out more resources thing comes from the very obvious fact that in this MU there is no reason for the SM to bleed anywhere near as much as the eldar, which is why the eldar counters, despite looking cost effective initially, are absolutely garbage. Banshees have to fight shotgun scouts and tacs and rangers have to fight ASM. The eldar will never come out on top of a straight-up engagement economically vs the SM unless they are WL and get lucky specials or they are fortunate with grenades. This forces the eldar player to always be running away, and I'm fully aware of the fact that this is the case, but my point is that even eldar can beat other race's head-on if they have the defender's advantage. This never holds true vs SM though, which is what makes them so hard for the eldar.

And do stop with the semantic bullshit too, you knew fine well what Soul implied by saying he doesn't want a buff. Yes, reinforcement price reduction advantage eldar as a whole, but it isn't buffing (making stronger) a unit, which for example adding 100hp to shees would be.

[Dark Riku]

All I see from you Torpid is more bias. Stop using the word fact wrong.

Riku it's a well known fact by any decent eldar player that SM are one of the hardest MUs there is for eldar.

Torpid, it's a well known fact by any decent SM player that Eldar is one of the hardest MU's there is for SM. See how that works both ways?

The shits out more resources thing comes from the very obvious fact that in this MU there is no reason for the SM to bleed anywhere near as much as the eldar, which is why the eldar counters, despite looking cost effective initially, are absolutely garbage. Banshees have to fight shotgun scouts and tacs and rangers have to fight ASM. The eldar will never come out on top of a straight-up engagement economically vs the SM unless they are WL and get lucky specials or they are fortunate with grenades. This forces the eldar player to always be running away, and I'm fully aware of the fact that this is the case, but my point is that even eldar can beat other race's head-on if they have the defender's advantage. This never holds true vs SM though, which is what makes them so hard for the eldar.

You seriously need to look up the word fact. Your examples show a SM army that invested tons more into units. Where the hell is the shurycan cannon?
Rangers fight scouts and tacs, not asm. Shurycan cannon deals with tacs and scouts from behind their shields. Shees deal with the poor asm that try to jump in on the shurycan or worse the rangers guarded by a shurycan and shees.

And do stop with the semantic bullshit too, you knew fine well what Soul implied by saying he doesn't want a buff. Yes, reinforcement price reduction advantage eldar as a whole, but it isn't buffing (making stronger) a unit, which for example adding 100hp to shees would be.

How you can think that making a unit's reinforce cost lower doesn't make them "stronger" is beyond me.

[Sub_Zero]

Mostly space marines suffer from shuriken play/ranger play. Because if your opponent has a platform and a squad of rangers then you have 2 targets to jump on, you can't grenade platforms with your scouts (of course you can but scouts risk to lose some models while moving to throw a grenade), your sniper scouts are not going to work (they can but that is really hard to preserve models of your scouts, rangers kill them from a longer range). The only reliable thing in T1 to deal with these "setup" teams is assault marines. But you have banshees to deal with. They guard these setup teams and they do merciless damage to assault marines. If you are able to support properly your assault marines then you win.

[Torpid]

And which SM players are these then? I know of none, they all seem to find orks/nids harder, at least at a high level.

I know for sure that myself, Ben, Soul and Farzo find SM to be one of the worst MUs for eldar and in fact I think I would be safe in assuming that Toil would agree with that too and pretty much any competent eldar, you Riku, not being one of them AFAIK.

The other two parts of your comment are covered by "let's not participate in semantic bullshit", which seems to be something you love doing.

[Tex]

I would agree that I find SM to be very hard to deal with as eldar. Double jump asm gets a lot done in this matchup. Although this is mostly from a "playing vs apo" perspective (ASM jump, crush shield, tie up shuri, scouts and apo run forward, shotgun blast and ff shees, heal asm, asm jump again, etc). I find that the FC is actually the easiest to deal with of the three SM heroes when I am eldar simply because he has to wait until t2 before he comes a huge threat.

Saying scout snipers don't work against eldar is just not true. I can tell you that scout snipers are incredibly hard for the wse and even the farseer to counter effectively. When purchased early, the bleed inflicted can get out of control very quickly. Don't believe me? I'll get Noisy to teach you some out of the box SM play.

[Sub_Zero]

they can but that is really hard to preserve models of your scouts, rangers kill them from a longer range

Do I need to say more?

To spot rangers you need to invest 75 / 25. To get infiltration you need to invest 50 / 10. To get sniper rifles you need to invest 100 / 30. Sniper scouts are overall more expensive compared to rangers. And only fully upgraded scouts have a chance to win in a duel.

It is like a predator fights a fire prism and with each shot you lose resources.

That is a question of personal preferences. I don't prefer to get snipers vs eldar.

However I agree that early sniper scouts can cause some bleed. But once rangers pop up your scouts are not gonna shine. Unless you micro them very well and force rangers to "spend" their shots on tactical marines/devastators/assault marines/heroes.