My goals for a new game mode.

[Black Relic]

True 40K Mod - Advanced VP control

I want to apologize in advance for any sentences that make either no sense or that's using the wrong word. I'll try to catch them as i read over it. And this is fairly long so grab a snack if you read this. Also move this to the appropriate topic if needed.

To make this more understandable and have paragraphs easier to find I will title each paragraph so responses will be easier. This will be a large read so grab a snack. Keep in mind things are subject to change in my mod as these are just my goal at this point in time. Thanks for you time in advance

Table of paragraphs

1: Initial goal for the True 40 K mod and its new objective

2: Additions to some maps

1- Stratagems and the building type

2- Forward bases

- The buildings
- The armory
- The supply depot
- The military support building
- Barracks
- Factory
- Command Station

3- Dynamic maps and players influence

- AI units and their controllable buildings
- Object destruction and points
- Hazards and turrets


3: New ways to fight

1- Territory and its purpose

2- Supply Lines and what they do

3- Mobility and guerrilla tactics


1: Initial goal for the True 40 K mod and its new objective.

When I first started the True40 K mod my goal was to make each race and unit accurately represent their stats in table top and match their descriptions in the codex. Make each race showcases the proper lore and what not. I kinda gave up on that. Mainly because the game wouldn't be all that fun due to all of the imbalances unless you like the imba Sm since i would be biased in favor for that races since i am indeed a fan boy.

What changed my view initially toward my mod was when i was doing a bit of research into to what is actually out there in terms of mods for Dow2 and what they offer. I don't actually remember where I saw some of these posts but one of them stated how they miss the base building that was present in dow1 and the fact that feature was absent for the most part turned a lot of people off. Although in my opinion Dow2 offered a bit more it terms of strategizing and made the game a bit more complicated and for some a bit more confusing and created a completely different game from the its predecessor. During the time i was looking at these post i was also playing Company of Heroes 2. And I really enjoyed the macro aspect of the game and how different doctrines effected each race different and how the doctrines are specialized for specific type of play. It was very interesting and was a bit inspired to add in something that would make the game feel more personalized when played and offer a multitude of different types of play. I also enjoyed how dow 1 large scale battles where and how sometimes you had to split your forces to effectively deal with a problem.

To put in a shorter way, I wanted to make a advanced VP game that could change how RTS is looked at.

2: Additions to the Map

1: Stratagems and buildings

In the map there a new points that can be captured to offer a perk to a team. These perks can be upgraded by adding generators to some buildings to boost the perk it provides. Capturing and decapping these points takes time due to what they can potentially offer. At this point in time there will be the following stratagems.

Manufactorum - Offers an artillery barrage at a location for a specific amount of time. The area it covers is large and the rocket hit random areas. The Rockets do not do a lot of damage but it can cause havoc and KB adding to or halting an assault. Adding Generators increases the number of rockets to be shot.

Shrine- Gives a red constantly over time. Adding generators increases how much red a team recieves.

Communication array - Gives a large sight radius and an ability similar to farsight minus the keen sight that provides. Cannot have generators built.

Communication station - Provides a decent size sight radius without the keen sight. Owning one or more of these increases ability the communication array gives. Its ability increase the stations sight radius for period of time.

The building armor type has been changed in the True40K mod. Due to the how many building there will be. The goal is to use shot blockers and them have more of an obvious presence. However garrisons would become very powerful. So now small arm fire damages building a little bit more and garrisons do not provide as large as an received accuracy bonus. This is mainly to balance garrisons but also see the glorious death animation of the buildings. I am trying to take a bit from CoH2 in terms of building density since shot blockers are so important and right now Dow2 doesnt really support tank usage that much in terms of using terrain and shot blockers as an advantage. I plan on changing this a bit.


2: Forward bases

Due to how much I want to add in the game, much of which i haven't mentioned yet, the maps would have to be much much larger. For example the argus gate map for 3v3 would be a 1v1 map. I would actually have to increase the size a tad bit. But knowing that a large part of this game is retreating to preserve units, only certain heros would be played competitively. Those would be the Techmarine, Ravener Alpha and all of the Eldar heros. So I needed to have a way that would support all heros in the game. So thinking back to what people enjoyed in dow1, which was base building i wanted to add a little bit of that, but not take away the general gameplay of dow2. Instead I wanted to add on top of it. These forward bases serve as a healing point (not a reinforement point until you get certain buildigs) when units are out of combat and a retreat point. You can add a node to these point so a player can add structures. Each forward base can only have 5 structure added to it. Somce structure can build their own buildings which are not counted toward this however those sturctures will also be limited to the player.

When a node is added to a forward base it will spawn 4 defensive structures. These structures will have a different way of defending based on the race. For example; Space Marines will spawn 4 heavy weapon turrets. These turrets will lack damage and suppression. However both increases as you get closer to the structure. Tyranids structure is capillary towers that periodically spawn a few rippers and a pair of spore mines. Both die automatically after a set period of time. Chaos will have shrines that will shoot doom bolts(similar to Sorc's shrine which has gotten a rework). These defensive structure can be damage to a point where they cannot shoot, spawn or anything. However they are indestructible by normal means. You have to destroy the node on the forward base to kill these defensive structures.

The Buildings -

I'll put it in a basic way and explain in better detail for each structure as they will all have their own separate paragraph. Note i will just be stating the simple names for each structure for example Barracks. It will builds units, however for nid is will be called something else. The building will include: Barracks, Armory, Supply Depot, Military support building, Machine Cult\Factory and Command Station (this one specifically might be subject to change in the future).

Barracks- This building will be able to reinforce certain units of the same races. A Space Marines barracks will reinforce Space marines units alone and no other races. At these buildings you can also cal in certain units tht you can get at the HQ. However calling in units at a forward base cost more than f you got them at the HQ. For example: Tactical Marines at the HQ cost 450,but that the back they will cost 500. Plasma devs cost 400, at the barracks they cost 400 req and 5 power. The barracks is shareable with your allies as in they can call in squads as well, however only if they are the same race as the barracks. So a tyranid player can select a Chaos MArines barracks but wont be able to call in any squads since it only calls in Chaos Marine stuff. These buildings will also have a different passive for each race. For example, when orks respawn that squad gets a small damage buff, When IG units spawn they get a small resources back however they will have a bit longer post spawn delay, Nids they will get a small speed buff, Chaos and Space Marines both don't have a post spawn delay. All of these a subject to change as this is a work in progress.

Supply Depot- This building is pretty straight forward. Periodically it will spawn 2 crates (once between 2-3 minutes). When the crates destroyed they will spawn a random drop. It may be resources,a global buff that lasts for a minute like increase in health regen. (extremely small number and cannot stack with other stuff), damage increase and damage resistance. When a player destroys a crate anyone can pick up the drop. HOWEVER! If a player destroys a crate and his enemy picks up the drop then the enemy has denied that resource or buff. Neither player get the benefit of the drop. But if an enemy destroyed the crate and they pick up the drop they do get the benefit. Whoever destroys the crate gets the benefit of the drop if they pick it up,but it can be denied by other players. A player can also callin generator and red points to this building. They will produce a reduced amount of resources). They will not count as the 5 toward your forward base. You can only have one supply depot at one time. Must be built 200m away from the HQ.

Military Support Building - This building is where a player can add to defenses (turrets and possibly cover) to the forward base. When they spawn they provide a free defensive structure in the form of a turret or an ability that aids the defense of the forward base. These buildings will also increase your population by 4. You can have as many military support buildings as you wish. This building will also increase health regen (works in combat) of allied units however this aura will be exclusive. Some races will be able to get inside of this building (and only allied stuff will be allowed to). Very simple however very important.

Factory - At this building a player can call in certain vehicles. However Super units and tanks cannot be purchase at this building, only transports and the Blood Crusher for Chaos. A player can get upgrades from the armory to increase how many vehicles this building can produce. For Example, the Space Marines and Chaos can get an Upgrade that allows Dreadnoughts to be called in and Predators ( Baal Pred for SM, Normal Pred ( fairly large increase in resources) for Chaos). This building also as a repair aura.The repairs is 4 hp per second and does not stack with other repair auras.

Command Station- This a fairly important structure. The building has a fairly large sight radius. This building will also produce red at a slow amount (1 red every 10 seconds,this can be increased to one every 5 seconds). The red produced is also to be shared with your team. Also,this hasn't been added yet, will increase your VP count by one if there is a triple and quadruple cap. A team can only have one of these at one time and has to be built at least 200m away from the HQ.

Armory- This building is where a player can get upgrades to further make their army diverse. A player can get access to new units, weapon upgrades, forward base increases and a number of extra things. Now player can only get one upgrade per Tier and cannot have any more than that. (This is subject to change for be 2 upgrades for t1 and t2 stuff and only one for t3 but still quite unsure and I may not do this). If the building is destroyed all passives and upgrades and globals cannot be used until a new armory is constructed but you do not lose any of your upgrades that your purchased. Also if a unit has a weapon upgrade that required you to purchase a certain upgrade from the armory it is not unequip. You can only have one armory at one time.This building will be bindable to a squad number for quick access.


3: Dynamic Maps and player influence

-AI units and their controllable buildings

In the map there will be a bit of a neutral or 'natives' to a map. These AI units will attack both teams and (hopefully) themselves if ican get two or three AI's to be different races. These Ai units will spawn randomly near certain points as they will not have an HQ .Normally a player can assume that a place an AI will spawn due to their land mark. If something looks bloody, skulls and corpses and surrounded by lava then that probably where chaos AI units spawn. For one to note, these AI units will do NO damage on retreat. Since it could just completely turn the game on its head in a larger sense then what I want. The AI units will be able to decap, but they cannot cap. Their decapping speed will be somewhat low about 75% slower than normal. This will make a decent come back mechanic by having the AI hurt their economy. However the AI can still damage units that are not in retreat. I might have the AI squads do reduced damage compared to their player controlled counterpart but i still have the think on that. A player can capture a AI's "command center." This may not make the AI fight for you how ever you get access to new globals. These globals allow you to drop in AI units at a targeted location. You can increase the squad count by added generators to the "command center." As time goes on in the game the AI controlled units will get stronger.

For example for Chaos. After the 7 minute mark in the game 3 squads of heretic will be produced. The squads will have 5 models and 2 of the squads will have autoguns. 7 minutes after that, 2 full sized heretics one with autoguns,the other with melee weapons and an AC, plus a 3 man squad of CSM. 7 minutes after that 3 full size heretics, 2 melee one ranged. One melee heretic has AC and the ranged heretics also have AC. 2 csm squads with 3 models per and a raptor squad. 7 minutes after 2 Full sized heretics. Both with AC and GL. 3 Full Size CSM squads. One CSM has AC and are equip with chain axes and bolt pistols. Full raptor squad (no AC)and a bloodcrusher. 7 minutes after that heretics with AC and GL. 2 CSM with AC. One CSM with MoK and AC. ONe Raptors with AC. One BloodCrusher. One Blastmaster Noise Marines. The last 7 minutes i swear. Its repeating this afterwards. 2 Heretics with AC and 2 have GL. A Havoc with heavy bolter, 3 CSM squads, one with MoK all three have the AC. A Raptor with AC. 2 Blood Crusher, BM Noise Marines and Plague Marines.

For every 3.5 minutes a squad of heretics with autoguns will spawn.

-Object destruction and points

In the maps there willbe a few objects that will be targetable and can be destroyed or repaired by a player. The destruction of these objects are permanent and cannot be altered afterwards. Two big objects that can be destroyed will be gates and bridges.Both can influence a players approach toward a certain area and help protect an area as well. These places will take a fair amount of time to destroy however will have a big impact on the game. If a player is trying to defend a forward base he can choose to destroy a bridge to limit access from a certain direction. This action could harm both teams so making those choices should not be taken lightly.
Gates will be around the map that will be controllable. There will be points around the map that revert control of the gate to that player/team. The Gate will automatically open for allies and close for enemies. It is a plan to have the gate point to allow the gate to stay open regardless of who is near the gate. This will allow different play styles and make a siege require careful planning and coordination. As the Gates are destructable a player can choose to destroy it. But similar to the bridges, that's a choice that shouldn't be made lightly. Because if you find yourself needing to defend,you might want that gate around! P.S I am thinking about adding walls that can get destroyed (not by heavy crush) to allow more depth into the game. There will be one (maybe two ill think about it) VP that is destructible.

-Hazards and Turrets

Ok so the hazards in the map will be permanent thing in the maps. It might be a mine field or a persistent flames near a toppled building. These will not do any damage in retreat however a player can use them to help aid in a defense, slow, down a push, lead their enemy into a hazardous area or it can be just out right annoying among other things that I cannot think of. The mines will caz suppression, slow vehicles and do a very small amount of damage however it will not damage units in retreat. The Flames will also do a small amount of damage and lower courage regen. but will not damage units in retreat. This makes players aware and can change a fight to better suit what their goal is at the time without affecting the map. Note that although it may not be a large damage or effect but it is still an advantage you can exploit. These Hazards will be in the map randomly to change how the map is played and how things are approached. Making every game a bit more different.

Turrets. This one is a bit difficult to explain as to why i added it. When I first decided I wanted this in the game it is because at the time i thought to myself "hey this is cool." It slowly started to turn into something that i am really interested in bringing to games in general. Mental stress. The fact of something that can shoot you and you as a player cannot do much about would annoy and frustrate you. You can disable the turret by getting it under a certain amount of HP however will be able to shoot at you after anyway. This stress can help make your enemy make mistakes but also if you as a player is on the receiving side of the turrets you'd feel accomplished or sigh in relief that a large annoyance is out of the way. Turrets will also serve a role of protecting your supply lines, to an extent of course. They will sometimes help in defenses and be placed around gates that would have make sieges or defenses easier. Control of a few turrets will be give to players that capture certain generators.

3: New ways to fight

1- Territory

Point that are captured will generate territory. This territory gets larger the more points you have. Territory has two functions. One, which ill explain later, affects resources. The other affects upgrades. If you are in friendly territory getting upgrades takes slower than normal by 25%. In neutral territory upgrades will take their allotted time. In enemy territory than it takes 50% longer than normal. Territory will be shown in the mini map (i hope i can get this working). A player would be able to do a number of things with this information. They can make a push easier by making the points they cap along the way to expand their territory (SM with Techmarine/CSM ideal way of pushing) or they can use the information to fake which direction they plan on going. Say you have some scouts cap the map up north and the enemy thinks you are planning an assault at top however your actual forces are to the south and are planning on attacking the enemies back side. Being able to abuse information and having your enemy fall for your trap is one way of fighting (eldar will be very good at this with their mobility). Chaos will be the only race that will be allowed to upgrade their territory. The territory will make all enemy abilities cost more energy and chaoss unit in their territory will have an increase in energy regen. and a small increase in speed. I am thinking of adding a small benefit for each race attacking into enemy territory. The buff wont be permanent though. Sort of like "in the breach" for IG if a squad member dies the rest of the squad is health by 5 and only happens when in enemy territory for the first 30 seconds (goes for any IG squad).

2- Supply Lines

As you have just read territory affects upgrade times and with the possibility of having more functions. Territory will also affect resources. As a player begins to cap points they will generate a "supply network" or supply line. If a req point has more than 3 points, that are owned by the same team, within a certain radius of the req point it will produces more resources. I was planning on having a point produce less if it is near 2 enemy points but for now i have given up on that. An enemy an damage a players supply line by simply decapping a point and cause severe damage to a players income. This helps allow a comeback mechanic and does not help races who like to "camp around that map" (since this is IG specially and the BB is a large part of this a t3 upgrade form the armory is to be able to get 2 BBs but watch your upkeep!!). Note that a player is also limited to a maximum to 1500 req and 500 power. Once you hit that you cannot gain extra resources. This is a way to keep players from being to brazen that are ahead. Another comeback mechanic,although i might increase the req count to 1750 but 1500 is enough for now.

3- Mobility and Guerilla tactics

Now this has alway been present in Dawn of War, weather it is 1 or 2. But in this mod it is now even more important. The map will be extremely large so a player having more than 1 army might be necessary at times. Having more than 1 army will allow a player to more easily contesting the map and better plan out advances toward a possible enemy position. Having 1 army loses you the map. Also being mobile is also a common tactic to keep your opponent guessing and undermine their defenses.

Now as everyone knows Guerilla tactics have been a common thing in DoW2 as well as being able to set up an ambush (holofield). As you now mobility will be a large necessity in this mod. And Guerilla tactics can do usd in a number of way. This is my intended use. One that is common in dow2 today, whittle down defenses. And having a few squads go around an execute some crucial actions like scouts nading a set up team will be extremely crucial in getting ready for a push and doing damage to your opponents defenses. But this is also what can happen, a player can back off those scouts in hopes the enemy will run after them. Now there are going to be places in the map that grant units inside an area infiltration. So they can plan an ambush and flank the chasing squads. This will frustrate the enemy into either making an assault, backing off, or (if they are smart) get a detector.

I honestly don't think i have explained "Mobility and Guerilla tactics" that well because it is somewhat straight forward.




Now that is the end of the plan i have for my mod. Somethings are bound to changes and what not. People probably think that this stupid. Well, Fuck you i'm doing it anyway. I wanted to express what i would like to see from an RTS game since i really do believe that RTS can become one of the largest Esports ever. Now i will be honest. This mod will favor faction wars in team games however communication is HUGE in this mod. In a team game this mod pretty much stresses team play and communication. Note that since there is going to be a lot for the player to keep track of there will be an option allow the computers take control of asquadandas a player you toggle a certain strategy you the computer to do such as make this squad follow my hero or have this squad cap req points. Squads will also be able to act on their own to a certain extent. Tanks will back up when their target is within a certain range (it will be slow movement).

I am sure someone has questions. Suggestions on what not to do. Shoot them but be nice please!

Now I hope to show you a true war.

[KanKrusha]

Hi

Modding is hard, takes a lot of hours and is frustrating. Often what you want to do won't work.

I would suggest you be flexible in your plans, start with one or two ideas and an overall vision. You are more likely to be successful if you grow the mod organically based on what you have achieved - one success leading to the next.

You will also find your ideas of gameplay change - with my own modding giving the player genuine choices became more and more important and was not something I had really considered at the start.

Not to be negative; but at this stage of the game's cycle you are in danger of only having one or two players by the time you finish. If I were to start a mod now I would do as you have done and try for a "new mode". I would stay away from skirmish type modes and aim for so think like a defense mod or something even more novel.

Have you seen this mod, it may help http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread. ... 1045571292

Good luck. The most important thing is to make actual modding progress. I would forget about spending time typing out your ideas and just get on and produce something.

[MaxPower]

Sounds nice, but It will be a lot of work, you really need to get into scar coding to add ai units in the game that spawn randomly (just like the last stand i presume). I don't want to sound rude, but I guess this mod/mode is just way too ambitious.

But I wish you all the luck and success in the world and hope you might prove me wrong and actually release a version of your vision.

[Black Relic]

I have already done most of this mod already. The tricky part is getting models for the buildings, making the maps, getting the damn gates to open. For things i haven't done yet are having territory implementation (which is already being worked on) and the AI taking control of a player's squad to do a certain action for them, Stratagems getting their abilities buffed from adding gens to the building and the hostile AI capturable building. . I pretty much have everything else aside from the Command Station affecting the VP ticker.

But this is what I plan on doing. The first two races that will be able to play the game mode (note the the game mode will only work on certain maps and not original) will be Space Marines and Tyranids since both a pretty much polar opposites.

The Stratagems was a thing in my head for along time but then that mod came out awhile back and asked if he was interested in helping. I honestly forgot what he said but since he already made a mod that used stratagems i had to ask for permission to use the idea. There is a few things on stratagems that need to change to where all allies can use the damn thing.

The buildings are in test phase and trying to figure out what do actually do with them (btw you can retreat to the forward base if i haven't mentioned it before). The Supply depot spawning crate and then the consumable drop was thanks to Myrdal same with the binding to the num keys. And I for one would like it if that squads bindable to numkeys was a thing. It's a pretty cool function imo.

As for the AI spawns that will be a bit more simple. There will be invis entities that have these hostile AI units spawn at an random time (as in between 7 and 8 minute) and a random location (this will be easy but time consuming). This is already a thing too. It works sort of but i have to change squad plans and add them too. And a lot of entities and squads lol. It's all easy but just thinking about the time to do it makes it tiring.

But I remember Caeltos say that sometimes a game designer's image isn't really what the game actually comes out to be. There might be something down the road that i have to scrap so the mod would be played.

[Oddnerd]

Wow, this is nuts - I knew you were making a new submod, but I assumed you were just dicking around with unit stats and abilities. I'd be happy to be a guinea pig in your experiment, I'd love to try something new.

[Black Relic]

Well I am messing around with units and abilities. I am actually trying to make leveling be a bit different than normal. And Due to the armory part of this game where a player can make his own army so to speak is something that is difficult.

There is one thing i should mention. I am messing around with the melee system. Its pretty much the same as it is in retail and Elite but i added a bit of RGN. The passive is if a melee entity is under a certain HP percentage (40%) while their target is over a certain percentage (70%). That Low HP model has a 5% chance to do a special attack regardless of melee skill.

[KanKrusha]

Can I suggest you put your mod up at relicnews forums? It will let you get to know a few more modders which may then give you access to the models you need, if they exist. There are a few buildings that have been done but not many.


Edit - I think this mod had some buildings in it. Don't know if you can contact modder anymore or not
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread. ... etribution)

[Black Relic]

I would but my mod uses a lot of Elite;s stuff. The main reason is so people who have Elite and get my mod don't have to download Elites stuff multiple times and saves a fair amount of space. Including other individuals that are already mention in my installition text including you Kan.But i haven't really gotten a clear "ok" from Elite yet so i keep it to my self barring my friends on steam whom I personally send the download link to.

I would like Shadowninja to come back though since i could have him do some building models and what not since they are not supposed to be big. But I think he is done with modding since his own mod didn't work when he released it. I am thinking about asking him for all his BA models and stuff so i can actually make the mod he wants. Might get him back if he sees his work in a working released form.

[KanKrusha]

I edited my post above and put in a link for a mod that used buildings. As I recall he just used in game assets (the bits that get added to bases when tiering up). Maps were too small unfortunately but was a good mod