I just got why people don't like using Kasrkin

[egewithin]

WARNING : This post does not contain any kind of buff or nerf ideas. I just wanted to talk about something.

Factor 1-) The bitter truth of Leman Russ
As someone said it before '' When you can get tanks, you get tanks. '' So, getting some infantry on the field in late T3 is not something IG players really ask. Kasrkin are durable more than most of infantry units in this game but still can not be as durable as a tank.

Factor 2-) They are not impressive enough by them selfs.
I tried playing with Kasrkin for a few times. The first thing I sensed is that they are not so effective. I mean, when you get Storm Troopers in T2 ( getting them in T2 matter at this point ) they unleash merciless fire power instantly. The burst damage is so good that, you wanna make it double and wreck everything. But when I played with Kasrkin;
- 1 one of them is not bringing enough burst damage by it self.
- 2 of them starts to show them selfs but not impressive in T3
- Getting double Plasma somehow wans't enough to deal with Terminators or I just couldn't see it was working, needs more test.
- When I got third Kasrkin and got grenade launchers on them, I was finially able to see them effective at something.
- Heavy infantry armor on Kasrkin was one of the best things in 2.5 patch.

In short, it took 3 squads to see them if they are good or not. Basicially they suck at the moment.

Factor 3-) Not enough dakka
From this part of the post, I don't want you to get any kind of buff asks. I am trying to explain why people are not happy about them. And yes, I will compate Kasrkin with Flash Gitz. Ork players are very happy to use Flash Gitz because they have insane dakka damage and a very good range too. Well, that is it but what else they can ask? They have insane fire power in T3 and that is what they need at the moment. While, Kasrkin are not as good as Flash Gitz but they supposed to be. Why guard players ever go with those guys. I am getting them if theyre are too much AV on the field so I can use the element of suprize right? Otherwise, they are not useful.

[Ace of Swords]

I use them and they do quite well, thing is in T3 if you can you want to amass as many tanks as you can or go for a super unit (but BB isn't as good as lemons in 1v1), so that's why they are a bit niche, but they are a great filler if you already got 2 tanks and are preserving them well, they also work great as a replacement for lost stormtrooper or GM in the late game, currently the grenade launcher is great, haven''t really used the plasma gun since lemans/GM already provide for the anti HI/SHI well enough so I'd rather get the control coming from the GL, so you may just want to look into their upgrades.

[Soberson]

Just waiting to Meleesrkins to roll out. That's really gonna push it through the line and ahead of LR

[Psycho]

At least Kasrkin don't have vehicle pathfinding, so that's a plus

[Tex]

Karskins were goodish, and now that 2.5.1 has roled out, they are great.

I think they used to depend largely on your playstyle, and that's exactly why I'm glad Cael picked up on some suggestions and gave them a sprint. Now they have a very clear role, and will likely be included in a wider variety of playstyles.
A nice little perk in there is that the sprint doesn't reduce damage output, so it can be used for awesome grenade rush downs on either setup teams or vehicles once level 2 is achieved.

Anyway, I'll put a little snapshot of the before and after in terms of karskin, just for fun.

Before:
-high power cost for a unit that isn't really considered a stand alone
-good DPS, great for anything other than AV
-plasma is sufficient against HI, but feels lacking vs SHI targets
-sergeant doesn't offer as much as other sarges for same cost
-no clear role because they lose too many 1v1's.
-huge damage on melta grenade

After:
-same or better cost efficiency on all previous listings
-will win more 1v1's without sarge: higher melee damage = force melee and win vs most ranged squads which also increases retreat grenade potential.
-will win more 1v1's with sarge: shoot on approach, break suppression/sprint away shoot some more, threaten grenade OR shoot on approach and rush down with sprint to secure melee and grenade potential
-will have much higher AV utility: +2 speed on top of speed 5.5 will allow them to secure much better positioning for melta grenade tosses. Again, leveling up to 2 should be a huge priority for kasrkin users to be able to combo the sprint and grenade more easily.

Essentially, kasrkins are going to be ultra hard to deal with as a side capping unit, and I think this is an excellent T3 choice for IG to make now: late game map control (an area where IG falls off the wagon pretty hard), or the most damage resistant tank in the game.

[saltychipmunk]

personally i think the main reason many people dont like kaskrins is that the things they get arent usually what people want in a t3 unit.

most t3 units have a few things in common. high stats/ or insane abilities.

nob? huuuuge hp pool, high model hp, power melee damage, good damage too. easily 4 - 5 times more durable that anything else orks have.
terminators? again HUUUGE hp pool, better armor type, better base damage
seer council? more then double the hp of any other eldar melee unit. pretty large power melee damage

obviously kasrkins aren’t beefy melee units but even if we look at similarly price t3 units .

kommandos? some of the most ridiculous abilities in the game decent stats too
d-cannon? stupidly powerful abilities.

in all cases there is nothing really comparable to those units in terms of the things they can do.

you simply cant say the same thing about kasrkins. they do 60+ pierce? yaaaay.... i think my guardsman do close to that, oh but they have longer range... storm troopers with assult kits.....

oh but they get plasma.... that does like 8 more plasma damage than my guardsman......

what about their armor and hp? well sure its heavy infantry and its a slightly better hp pool but its matched by pretty much every t1 heavy infantry unit in the game and those t1 heavy infantry units have fewer models too.... and they still get gibbed in t3


But how about those abilities? a frag a melta thing passive capping speed and a movement speed ability? but aren’t they a squishy long range unit? most of those things are just comparable or slightly better versions of other abilities seen elsewhere. frags are cool on t1 and t2 units when those kind of things still do enough damage to matter. but you can spike leveled units in t3 and they will get up after the explosion wonder if someone had farted kind of harder than usual..


I will say giving them a better fleet does help. I just wish their other stuff was actually t3 level special rather than a mass of various t2 level bonuses all thrown together on one unit.

Note im not discounting anything riku said. all of those are valid uses. But I am pointing out that in the context of what people want in a t3 unit ... they seem rather bland in many cases

[Forestradio]

Nobz have heavy melee

[saltychipmunk]

hmmm so they do, very well then.