Purgation Justicar?????

[Dark Riku]

do the tac kraken bolts effect the sentinal? It is not about how good strikes are in other areas its is do they do enough damage to break the ig tank , can they break passed that tipping point?

if the bolts to effect sentinels then that's the tipping point , if they don't then i fully apologies for my ignorance.

Yes they affect the sentinel since the sentinel is HI.
This shouldn't be the tipping point though, unless the IG player willingly tanks the kraken rounds for some odd reason. My point being here Kraken rounds have a timing window. The sentinel is faster so should be able to choose the fights.

[Cyris]

GK against sents is hard but not impossible (though I feel that equally matched top end players will find IG stomps face). This thread though is Purgation which I can honestly say is a terrible choice against sent, especially double sent. They do zip all damage to sents, and the Ig playstyle with double sents is to kite. Purgation squad is terrible against ranged squads which are happy to step back An instant suppression ability would help force the repair squad off. An AOE DOT damage skill won't help as much since you lack ways of keeping them in it since as mentioned, they alreayd are planning on giving up ground constantly. It will help against mass guards though, but mass guards are a sign to get grenades!

[Batpimp]

especially sentinel spams which gk have shockingly few answers too since the majority of t1 upgrades deal with aoe style anti infantry weapons... or melee.

Strike squad ranged dmg? Psycannons? Any upgraded rhino? etc? ...

T1 Riku...Sentinel spam is pain in the ass against GK. You bleed endless especially IS and you can't do much about it in T1. T2 is a different story.

same thing for orks.. do you know how much i hate sentinel spam with any race. but orks just BLEEEEEED

[Forestradio]

This is a question for Lulgrim more than anyone else, since he does all the putting into the mod stuff.......

Is it even possible to give the justicar the fireball animation and/or visual effect? I don't know if it's possible to lift something like that between models/factions.

Everything exists, but it's spread out in between various models (chaos sorceror, libby, etc)

There is a precedent for exploding fireballs though. Chaos rising campaign Jonah Orion can make his fireball attack explode (its called ignite soul).

[Codex]

the problem with doing the whole focus sent then focus ig etc is that it breaks up your dps over both units , which is exactly what ig wants.

Obviously I don't agree. This is how I fight Sentinel+ Guardsmen not just as SM, but as any race. You never want to try to focus down the sentinel when you can't kill it in one go, you always try to force off the repairers. But there's no way to pin them in place if you don't attack the sentinel, they will just kite you otherwise. Thus it's important to tactically pin them in place by attacking the sentinel, then constantly switching targets to take advantage of this.

[saltychipmunk]

yeah but if the igs micro is good enough he can leverage the fact that ig squads replace for pennies.

dont get me wrong , your strategy is about the only effective strategy when you dont have spike damage.

It however is also very time consuming.

And that is the issue regarding the sent builds, they cost no power , yet can easily carry ig into t2 , no problems due to how much control it gives ig over the ranged dps of their opponent.

because since the number of effective t1 counters to a sent is so limited , it becomes very easy to cheese it.

[Ace of Swords]

Spam stormtroopers with a rhino, pop in and out while following sents and use the smoke during engagments to get no damage, if needed your SS and hero can push to the gm in melee while the 2 or 3 IST will work on sents, that will become impossible to micro for the IG.

[saltychipmunk]

i am totally going to try that

[sk4zi]

i still dont get the difference hiere between GK and SM or even chaos.

all of them have a dediacted range squad with more or less damage and something else (scouts, Tics, Stormtroopers)
so actually i am thinking storm troopers is yet the best to deal with sents since tey also have long range + decent damage unlike tics and scouts who need at least to purchase an upgrade to do damage.

so i mean this 3 dps less cant be the reason why just 2 strike squads dont work, can it?

actually i think 2 strike squads and troopers with grens work
also i can imagine a strike squad with flamer against the repairers and a couple stormtroopers with only Leaders.

of course you cant come upon a single strike squad + storms can counter a spam which is in my view at least 3 of them

[Flash]

Try it. If you pull it off, I'd love to know how you did it

[Torpid]

i still dont get the difference hiere between GK and SM or even chaos.

all of them have a dediacted range squad with more or less damage and something else (scouts, Tics, Stormtroopers)
so actually i am thinking storm troopers is yet the best to deal with sents since tey also have long range + decent damage unlike tics and scouts who need at least to purchase an upgrade to do damage.

so i mean this 3 dps less cant be the reason why just 2 strike squads dont work, can it?

actually i think 2 strike squads and troopers with grens work
also i can imagine a strike squad with flamer against the repairers and a couple stormtroopers with only Leaders.

of course you cant come upon a single strike squad + storms can counter a spam which is in my view at least 3 of them

Sentinels are hard countered by suppression and snipers in t1, plasma in t2.
Consistent ranged damage is not strong against them due to them having HI armour in t1 and moving at speed 8 and having repair support.

Basically GK IST do a decent job against them due them having burst-fire ranged weapons in t1, in fact it makes them one of the best t1 ranged units period, since they can bleed and kite extremely well for their cost (they just scale horribly). SS can tank tonnes of IG ranged fire too and only catachans can fight them in melee (and even then it's unpredictable due to their crazy specials).

2x IST w/ sarges + SS deals ample damage. On smaller maps you can add in a purgation squad to counter heroes/catachans or on bigger maps an additional IST squad would prove more useful.

Other races find it much easier since they can snipe them, or trap them using suppression to deny the sentinel access through an area. Chaos finds it easy to kill sentinels because indirectly they can deal with the IG army easily and a lone sentinel is very easy to kill when it has no support. Also heretics with full models will trap a sentinel if they get in melee and it has no stomp.

And I've managed it before Flash: http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=286897

[saltychipmunk]

yeah storms leaders + a power sword on the bc - makes some stupidly fast burst damage.

the only real problem with it , that is ,in going for the sent kill , you open your self to that catachan. after all 3 iss with leaders is 45 power even two is 30.

750 hp is not alot of hp vs catachan shot guns and guardsmen support. not without some kind of aoe to pressure.

[sk4zi]

so you actually argumenting

2 Storms + 1 strike?
vs
2 guards + sent spam + catachans ?
is not working?

quite obvious that the GK force is not enough for that.

also catchans cost 40 power right?

so you spent 30 power vs 40 power right?

[Nurland]

Cata squad leaders are basically autobuys. So it is generally say Catch-a-cans are at least 60 power in T1.

[saltychipmunk]

well to be fair id do a 2 iss + stike + prugs or 3 iss + purgs or interceptors

for when the cats come outs.

either way you have to put the 30 down first since the sent is out at the start. So technically the guard would have a power advantage , enough to get most of a cat.

and the 4th squad of most army is power heavy anyway.

but the difference is that the guard doesnt have to spend much power until the cats where as the gk do in this situation