Dawn of War Codex

MoT for max damage ? Lol, if it hits it does a lot of damage, but usually you want to target vehicles with it (you will usually miss infantry anyway) MoK is great at dealing with commanders.

simliar to the vanquisher ? What do you mean ? Vanquisher has less damage against vehicles than a las pred

Making Twin-lascannons more effective against Vehicles would be pretty stupid, as they are really good now.

mean if you decide your Leman Russ to upgrade with the anti AV upgrade, its less god vs infantery but it gets more range.
thats what i mean for the lascans ...

Kvek wrote:MoT for max damage ? Lol, (...)

u lol and dont explain why, what i want knows only me alone
... true it does a lot of damage... even to commanders.
and it has splash whith makes it also very good vs everything else.

actually im playing chaos and SM and its kind of a nerf for these two races.
the sugestion is to make the two other upgrades even more atractive. especially the khorne one because it would be the allround one then.

and like i sayed - sm needs another goodie if the lascan is nerfed to be dedicated AV and no longer just making the pred even better.

Kvek wrote:MoT for max damage ? Lol, if it hits it does a lot of damage, but usually you want to target vehicles with it (you will usually miss infantry anyway)

sk4zi wrote:u lol and dont explain why, what i want knows only me alone

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In my experience with the SM laspred, it very infrequently totally whiffs against infantry. The targeting offset on a "miss" seems pretty low so it almost always ends up hitting the squad, just not dead center. Missing is only a major factor when shooting at single entities like subcommanders/commanders, or something like a dev squad that decides they're going space themselves way the hell out.

It's not like a tac missile launcher, where the missile is liable to go winging off at 45 degree angle from the target and plow into the ground 5 feet in front of him. <-pr0 skillz

Arbit wrote:In my experience with the SM laspred, it very infrequently totally whiffs against infantry. The targeting offset on a "miss" seems pretty low so it almost always ends up hitting the squad, just not dead center. Missing is only a major factor when shooting at single entities like subcommanders/commanders, or something like a dev squad that decides they're going space themselves way the hell out.

It's not like a tac missile launcher, where the missile is liable to go winging off at 45 degree angle from the target and plow into the ground 5 feet in front of him. <-pr0 skillz

yeah, the splash of 1 is generally less than the amount the shot misses by. only the tank versions have this splash though, setups do not and so do miss most of the time.

so you agree, that lascannons alre also good vs Infantery?

i still think so.

"but usually you want to target vehicles with it " also doesnt deny it ... i dont want that. because it does a lot of damage every time it shoots.

but ok ok
dont nerf my tanks ...

Orkfaeller wrote:Just something I wished was included since I played back in the Beta days, and now that I stumbled upon it I'd like to bring it up again.




Is there any chance we ( and with "we" I mean "you" ) could include something like this as an vissual upgrade for Techmarines that get the BIONICS wargear / armour?

where on earth did you get that helmet in the first screenshot? (the Helmet crest on the Mk4 helmet)

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread. ... MASTER-mod *pop*

Space marines with robot arms... sign me in!

It would involve simply cutting off an arm from the Techmarine model (like I did with the helmet, although that will change according to army level) and making it a wargear item that is replaced by Bionics this time.

It is possible to put overwatch function to T2/T3 buttons ?

I don't know if it's possible but I don't want it to be done. Resources awareness is one of the keys of the game.

Lulgrim wrote:It would involve simply cutting off an arm from the Techmarine model (like I did with the helmet, although that will change according to army level) and making it a wargear item that is replaced by Bionics this time.

If this was possible, I.. I'd do anything for you.

...

ANYTHING

Asmon wrote:I don't know if it's possible but I don't want it to be done. Resources awareness is one of the keys of the game.

It's not a substitute for resource awareness. Someone that plans their purchases and timing around when they expect to tech will still have an advantage over someone that thoughtlessly puts it on overwatch. It would just be a convenience so the upgrade would automatically start while you are busy microing something.

Also, why should putting a unit on overwatch be OK but putting the T2/T3 research on overwatch be heresy?

It cuts down on busywork, and I approve of anything that does that.

I'm also leaning towards no for this one. If you are to busy that you can't click t2/t3 in time you should have that disadvantage.

So why is putting a unit purchase on overwatch OK but T2/T3 not OK? It's no different than saying "OK, I'm saving up for a dread now so I'll put it on overwatch". The resources are even similar.

There have been plenty of times I've committed to getting T2 but have been 15 power shy, then I get busy with something else and now I'm 20+ power over. In that sort of instance, having to actually click the T2 button right when you hit the correct amount is an administrative burden like having to manually build SCVs in Starcraft 1. edit: not to say it's just as bad as manually building SCVs (what is? ), but it falls into the same category of annoyance

Because people often forget the overwatch units and purchase multiple of them, I personally never use overwatch for purchasing units, it's just more micro intensive rather than just remembering to purchase X unit asap,but if t2 and t3 would be overwatchable, I would just put them on it at the start of the game and be done with it.

As a noob who often overwatches units and forgets to tech up, I think I should be punished ruthlessly and mercilessly for my nubcakedom (heavy T1 playstyle). I would also say no as I don't feel like I deserve a crutch when other people can do it just fine.

For clarity I'm trolling myself a little bit but I'm not being sarcastic.

I'm entirely against any Overwatch function.

The HQ is hotkeyed to the F1 key (iirc) and all over purchases within the HQ have a hotkey. Being able to multi-task combat, and economy management is a skill, and an obvious advantage if you're on top of your build timings.

Players who have trained themselves to keep a close eye on their resources and build timings should have all the given advantages over someone that does not.

as a n00b, I don't even like the idea of overwatch in the first place, and if someone floats, they should be punished for it - as it has been said, you should learn to manage something like that and pick up the skills.

Still wish there was a good way to put in that visual aid for squad selection, though (i.e number indicator on top of squad in disregard to the squad portraits on the right side). It's more of a case of cluster fuck sort of ordeal for mob squads mixing in with each other followed by having to select the right squad(s) in the heat of battle to retreat.

And by squad mixing, I'm talking about those god damn stupid sergeants that keep wandering off miles ahead of the rest of their unit getting caught in another spot on the field.

as you sayed, it just helpes noobs...

why not help the noobs? then you have more even opponents ...
or are you afraid of them then?

but just my 2 cents.

The problem is that it isnt helping noobs. on the surface, you think thats the case but paying attention to economy and being abe to multi task in the heat of things is crucial. If you allow them (including mself on that) to overwatch everything, theyll also get used to this idea that everything is a predetermined step process wherein x leads to y and then to z. Sometimes its beneficial to make that manual decision.

sk4zi wrote:as you sayed, it just helpes noobs...

why not help the noobs? then you have more even opponents ...
or are you afraid of them then?

but just my 2 cents.

Dumbing down the game to appeal a wider audience is precisely what you are describing, and that's a huge problem in nowdays games, that said, it' not the difficulty in the game that needs to be toned down, it's new players that need to step it up.

I was struggling with this until a couple of months ago. Then I started practicing with the numbered hotkeys for squad selection and it helped immensely. I basically just played against expert ai on Armageddon river crossing. It doesn't teach good practices for multi, but when there are no games up, it kills time and helps you get the hang of better micro

Yes, that's great and all guys and I appreciate why you feel you should be rewarded for good micro because I myself have decent micro and so I would feel wronged if this trait of mine is took away that ultimately did take time to develop. Nonetheless, there is a trade-off between the influence macro and micro have on the game. This is after all a strategy game and not a shooter so macro still must be more important than micro.

I agree that making economic upgrades over-watchable is too much, however a lot of people seem to think that any aspect of micro that a player uses well should reward them, but this isn't necessarily the case, macro, at least at higher levels of play, should always take precedence over micro in this game, in my opinion. Longest fucking sentence ever

Ace of Swords wrote:

sk4zi wrote:as you sayed, it just helpes noobs...

why not help the noobs? then you have more even opponents ...
or are you afraid of them then?

but just my 2 cents.

Dumbing down the game to appeal a wider audience is precisely what you are describing, and that's a huge problem in nowdays games, that said, it' not the difficulty in the game that needs to be toned down, it's new players that need to step it up.

No, it's not dumbing the game down, it's making it more accessible. Maybe that sounds like semantics, but it's not.

You make a mental commitment to teching up long before you actually hit the T2/T3 button. That is, you gauge your opponents strength and tech, your map control and resources, etc. and accordingly stop buying upgrades and units so you can stockpile req/power. That, right there, is the key decision that resource management hinges on. Actually having to click the button just when you have just the right number of resources is less of a skill test and more of an administrative annoyance. Someone that doesn't know how to manage their economy isn't really going to be helped that much by overwatch. Let's be honest, if a player's economic strategy is to put T2 on overwatch and ignore his resources, what are the chances that you haven't crushed them through superior unit use and micro?

Also, just because something requires skill or attention to do doesn't necessarily make it a good inclusion to the game. The primary goal is fun, after all. Remember when we didn't have minimum range indicators for stuff like ASM jump? That took skill to eyeball the minimum distance, and it gave an advantage over a less experienced player that wasn't familiar with it. It was pretty fucking annoying though and I'm glad we have the indicators, even though you could make the argument that it lessened skill requirements.

Arbit, I see where you're coming from, but I don't agree.

Firstly, the difference for me between having overwatched units versus overwatched teching is that overwatched units can backfire on you, causing you to build 2 rangers when you only wanted 1 (this has happened to me quite a few times). I've even been so distracted I've let ASM overwatch, which has made some games really quite a lot more difficult than they needed to be. Overwatching tech would not come with the same risk.

Back when overwatch was first introduced, I was all over it. I was like, yes, best thing ever! And really, the only unit I really ever overwatched was Librarian. Which was the worst. Why? Because it taught me a really bad habit of not being constantly aware of what my HQ is doing.

Since Librarian is limited to 1, and since this was back in the day when Librarian was trolololOP, it meant that I would go through the entire mid game and not take Librarian overwatch off. Occasionally I would get to T3 and overwatch a predator, and be like, wtf?! Oh. Libarian overwatch is still on. Lol. Silly me.

Honestly, that's my own fault, but basically from personal experience putting in fire-and-forget overwatch into this game is bad, it creates complacency and is a crutch that has allowed me to develop bad game habits. Bad game habits which I still struggle to completely shake off, resulting in me often being slow to hit the T2 button, sometimes overwatching extra units...

Secondly, this game is a real time strategy. Or a real time tactics, it doesn't really matter. My point is that this game is about decision making AND execution. Having either-or is not enough. And importantly, it's about decision making and execution in real-time. I accept your point that you make a mental commitment to teching long before you hit the T2/T3 button, but if that's your concern it sounds like the Total War games is more your thing. (I love that series)

I stopped using overwatch when I found 3 rhinos, RHINOSSSS!!! at my HQ and no resources left to tech up.

allowed my GK to hide in metul bwackes though, the cowards, the fewls. But the enemy took away my metul bwackses

ThongSong wrote:I stopped using overwatch when I found 3 rhinos, RHINOSSSS!!! at my HQ and no resources left to tech up.

allowed my GK to hide in metul bwackes though, the cowards, the fewls. But the enemy took away my metul bwackses

two las rhinos np, snipes infantry, even in retreat and pwnds dread

ThongSong wrote:I stopped using overwatch when I found 3 rhinos, RHINOSSSS!!! at my HQ and no resources left to tech up.

allowed my GK to hide in metul bwackes though, the cowards, the fewls. But the enemy took away my metul bwackses

An aside but ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqinPt-vN54

The perfect opportunity....