Dawn of War Codex

Hej fellow elitists,
One thing bugs my mind every time I see it and that is why the Warp Spiders are labeled as infantry when in the fluff/lore they have the same armor as a space marine. I see, however, that from a balancing standpoint the infantry armor is more suitable. So what I want to discuss here is threefold:

1. How important are lore/fluff arguments in the game (in your opinion)?
2. Is there a way to make Warp Spiders with heavy armor work?
3. Are there any more blatant instances of fluff/lore breakage in the game?

Greets
Schepp himself

Schepp himself wrote:Hej fellow elitists,
One thing bugs my mind every time I see it and that is why the Warp Spiders are labeled as infantry when in the fluff/lore they have the same armor as a space marine. I see, however, that from a balancing standpoint the infantry armor is more suitable. So what I want to discuss here is threefold:

1. How important are lore/fluff arguments in the game (in your opinion)?
2. Is there a way to make Warp Spiders with heavy armor work?
3. Are there any more blatant instances of fluff/lore breakage in the game?

Greets
Schepp himself

let's add Krak grenades to TSM\CSM though and so on...

imho it's not viable for gameplay but could be interesting for building tabletop-simulation mode

LOCALgHOST wrote:

Schepp himself wrote:Hej fellow elitists,
One thing bugs my mind every time I see it and that is why the Warp Spiders are labeled as infantry when in the fluff/lore they have the same armor as a space marine. I see, however, that from a balancing standpoint the infantry armor is more suitable. So what I want to discuss here is threefold:

1. How important are lore/fluff arguments in the game (in your opinion)?
2. Is there a way to make Warp Spiders with heavy armor work?
3. Are there any more blatant instances of fluff/lore breakage in the game?

Greets
Schepp himself

let's add Krak grenades to TSM\CSM though and so on...

imho it's not viable for gameplay but could be interesting for building tabletop-simulation mode

Good one, I stumbled upon that, too. At least with the TSM, I'm not that lore-tight with CSM.

Greets
Schepp himself

Schepp himself wrote:Good one, I stumbled upon that, too. At least with the TSM, I'm not that lore-tight with CSM.

Greets
Schepp himself

me neither, you know but since CSM is da same - why not the same gren?

Schepp himself wrote:Hej fellow elitists,
One thing bugs my mind every time I see it and that is why the Warp Spiders are labeled as infantry when in the fluff/lore they have the same armor as a space marine.

I'm sorry but no. Warp spiders do not have the same armor as space marines. Warp spiders armor is way more advanced, plates that are soft but harden on impact, but also offer less protection than your typical space marine armor. Unless you have some sources saying otherwise?
In TT however they do indeed get the same armor save... But that's TT and a freaking Imperial Knight has the same save as a space marine/warp spider
But fluffwie I think Space Marine armor offers way more protection.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Warp_Spiders


1 Lore should be somewhat the starting point but shouldn't stand in between balance way. It shouldn't be ridiculously too far away from the fluff either. See super mario jump Gabriel DoW3.

2 I dunno

3 I don't think this is breaking lore in the first place actually.
But yeah there are some. But for the sake of balance they are ok.
Like Tyranids being able to go into garrisons, any teamgame that is not a FW and so on.

Dark Riku wrote:I'm sorry but no. Warp spiders do not have the same armor as space marines. Warp spiders armor is way more advanced, plates that are soft but harden on impact, but also offer less protection than your typical space marine armor. Unless you have some sources saying otherwise?
In TT however they do indeed get the same armor save... [...]

I was thinking about their armor save in the Tabletop that is indeed the same as power armor (3+) which seems to be the guideline for putting units in infantry (6+, 5+ and 4+ save) and heavy infantry (3+ save) categories. Power armor gives further advantages and there is also the general toughness of the wielder of the armor taking into account, I agree with you.

Greets
Schepp himself

Nobs have heavy armor too in game, despite having only +6 armor save by default and +4 with 'eavy armor (which they seem to wear in game) in TT. Meanwhile ogryns are SHI despite only having +5 armor save, but then again they had 3 wounds in TT.

Ogryns have superior baseline stats to nobs in TT, I demand that elite mod reflect this.

anyway heavy armor is quite a poisoned gift past T1, or a way to balance large HP pools that would be op without it
(to the point most tanks are decent hard counters to fire dragons)

Thibix Magnus wrote:anyway heavy armor is quite a poisoned gift past T1, or a way to balance large HP pools that would be op without it
(to the point most tanks are decent hard counters to fire dragons)

Saying most tanks isn't really accurate though given that they'd have to be doing plasma or inferno damage to be more effective vs heavy armour (if I am not mistaken).

What makes heavy armour a poisoned chalice is the availability of plasma yes, but I don't think saying that the tanks themselves are counters to the Fire Dragons is really accurate. Even if explosive does more damage vs HI (because I am not sure), I still wouldn't go so far to claim that.

Swift wrote:

Thibix Magnus wrote:anyway heavy armor is quite a poisoned gift past T1, or a way to balance large HP pools that would be op without it
(to the point most tanks are decent hard counters to fire dragons)

Saying most tanks isn't really accurate though given that they'd have to be doing plasma or inferno damage to be more effective vs heavy armour (if I am not mistaken).

What makes heavy armour a poisoned chalice is the availability of plasma yes, but I don't think saying that the tanks themselves are counters to the Fire Dragons is really accurate. Even if explosive does more damage vs HI (because I am not sure), I still wouldn't go so far to claim that.

goddamn, autarch can solo pred wtf they talking about?
just use right button to formation change and u be ok

Remember that sarcasm doesn't translate very well over the internet. I'm not sure if you're serious or joking

well I exaggerated ^^ let's say that, unless combined with WS, fire dragons are a very risky counter to tanks (looted, preds, non vanquisher lemons) that deal aoe explosive... in my mid-level experience at least. I gave up using them against anything else than melee walkers.