SM Vanguards

[Barrogh]

Hello there. I'm not sure if this is correct section to post this thread, but anyways...

I've noticed that vanguards are used quite rarely. Although I understand why people would hestitate to use them, I'd like to ask if "it's just me".

Does somebody here use them on regular basis? When do you generally commit to getting them? Do you have any replays to share?

What do people generally think about them?

Thanks in advance.

[BaptismByLoli]

I'm usually hesitant to get them because I don't wanna lose the Melta Bomb ability. The only time I find Vanguards worth a purchase is if there are a lot of SHI/HI on the field. And that's if I can make sure that my ASM won't bleed that much when using them against the enemy. Also, on a personal note, I hate losing level 3/4 squads

[Torpid]

I put vanguards to very good use in this game here: http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=293568.

Basically there are two different times in which you will want vanguards. Firstly, you will want them if you buy ASM late on in the game as this will negate the lack of experience your ASM don't have compared to buying them early on. But why would you buy ASM late in the game? You may deal with suppression via snipers or grenades/infiltration early on and therefore can afford to get a devastator (or two) in your early build order which is useful vs certain heroes such as the hive tyrant or the warboss. Alternatively you may have an already got an ASM early on but due to the sheer quantity of suppression teams, or just excess amount of ranged units that the foe has - imagine an eldar who goes double shurikens, dark reapers and wraithguard in t2 and is pushing your gens endlessly so you can't simply out-tech him -. In either situation the rule is simple: if you get ASM post-early t2 it is a given that you want vanguards unless you direly need melta bombs (more than one fire prism and you can't afford a similar amount of predators/cyclone missle terminators).

The other time in which you may want vanguards is simply if you bought them early on but they haven't leveled very much throughout the game for whatever reason. In this case you often will only get them if you have the tech-lead as that means you don't really have to worry about losing your melta bomb as tanks are unlikely to be coming out. They can also be used as a melee counter and that is sometimes motivation for buying even if you're around mid level 2 by the time you hit t3 (they have a tracking special and generally just do more damage than ASM and so are very useful as an anti-melee unit), but again you have to make sure you can deal with vehicles without that melta. Hence the vanguard are very useful in combination with a librarian as a librarian somewhat compensates from their reduced HP (since vans won't be as high level as ASM) with gate of infinity, furthermore the librarian lets you get through t2 without necessarily purchasing a vehicle (and therefore you can seriously mess up the foes composition by doing a vanguard/predator t3 rush as soon as you gain an economic lead in t2) and the librarian also has veil of time which makes it rather easy to deal with the most pesky of vehicles, the fire prism, despite lacking melta bombs.

[Forestradio]

I don't play SM in 1v1 much these days, but had a really good 3v3 with them a bit back as apo.

[Sub_Zero]

In SM mirrors vanguard veterans are viable. Becase you don't kill a lot of models and you can even have level 1 asm in T3. And I think it is safer to buy them (asm -> sarge -> vanguards) vs orks in T3 vs nobz. For extra disruption because buying a tank is not a reliable option.

[Barrogh]

Hm, thanks for responses (and links ofc). I was asking because I've seen people using them maybe once. As far as examples go, I didn't expect them to be this valuable in 3v3. It's pretty interesting actually.

[L0thar]

I put vanguards to very good use in this game here: http://www.gamereplays.org/dawnofwar2/r ... &id=293568.

That's actually quite funny. When I read your advice to use Vanguards vs Nobs in the "Orc" thread I was thinking about a game I played some time ago, when one of my teammates used them to pretty good effect...and look at that, it was the exact same game :)).

[Atlas]

I also have been thinking about getting a second squads of ASMs in T3 to get Vanguards for extra disruption and a retreating melee heavy-hitter. Need to try it but dunno how effective it'll really be.

[Torpid]

That's exactly what I did in that linked replay and it worked wonders.

[Barrogh]

Watched some more replays. I really didn't expect VGs to last this long on the field even though I'm aware of their regen. Guess I was really underestimating that combined with their ability to pick engagements (granted, you guys know how to manage them too ), so to speak.