Discussing countering melee with GK

[Cheah18]

I think this has been an issue for some people but I'm not quite up-to-date with all the Pros' opinions on the matter. Its certainly an issue for me.

Melee and jump units seem to be a problem for me as GK. Purgs are a good choice, naturally, but aren't always sufficient, especially vs jump units. ASM and stormboiz are a big problem, nids are hard to control too I find. The Banshee-ranger combo is something I find to be very hard to deal with.

Anyone have any suggestions? If it turns out that people agree that it is in fact a big problem then I propose a new unit is in order.

[Caeltos]

Anyone have any suggestions? If it turns out that people agree that it is in fact a big problem then I propose a new unit is in order

Please no.

[Torpid]

You're only like... a year behind on this one Cheah

[Cheah18]

You're only like... a year behind on this one Cheah

I really thought so too BUT HELP ME PLEASE I HAVE NO IDEA

[Torpid]

I will eventually if nobody else does, but right now I'm way too tired to get into the GK macro, apparent role, design, implementation and meta...

[Cheah18]

Sounds like a hard solution?

[Forestradio]

Spam stormtroopers and hope for strike squad special attacks (mind blades global helps you with this).

Stop buying purgations, they're terrible vs anything other than a triple guardsmen build simply because they can't suppress more than one unit at a time and their suppression is unreliable at best and useless at worst.

[Dark Riku]

They kinda melt light infantry, combo it with the kockback and major damage from the IST nade launchers.. I find they very useful.

[Forestradio]

Seeing as they won't even force off default hormagaunts, no they are not very useful.

A third IST squad does the same job better, can actually focus fire single entities, is faster and helps with map control, etc etc

[Torpid]

It's dual purgs or no purgs. It's also pretty stupid how they do 65% of their courage damage still while using that ability.

[BaptismByLoli]

Well, Purgators will be getting increased courage damage. Don't know how useful it'll be though. But I think it's best to see what 2.3 will do with GK and how they can counter melee

[Torpid]

Probably be totally broken with the new rhinos, especially in t1 and then it will be useless in t2 when the big ranged deeps come out.

[Bahamut]

Probably be totally broken with the new rhinos, especially in t1 and then it will be useless in t2 when the big ranged deeps come out.

yeah, i feel the same exact way about those changes

[Forestradio]

What the change does is make using purgation drop from a 600/60 investment to a 480/60 investment..............

[BaptismByLoli]

IIRC, their Rhino was to have a mounted gunner right? Any idea on the DPS of the thing?

[Cheah18]

Shame Caeltos isn't in favour of a new unit, I'm sure I could think of a way to contrive the Culexus assassin I've longed for so badly and make it an interesting anti-melee unit.

Fair enough though.

Thanks for the replies its useful. Loving the disagreements too, makes for an interesting read.

[Aertes]

I think this problem is provoked because Grey Knights are the only army without a supression unit. I commented this in my post about an idea to include the Psilencer weapon as an upgrade for Purgators.

[BaptismByLoli]

I think this problem is provoked because Grey Knights are the only army without a supression unit

They have a suppression unit. It's the Purgation Squad but ATM the general consensus is that their not that good apparently at doing their job.

[Dark Riku]

Seeing as they won't even force off default hormagaunts, no they are not very useful.

A third IST squad does the same job better, can actually focus fire single entities, is faster and helps with map control, etc etc

Their ability snares in an AoE similar to crippling poison... Use it :p It's very useful.


GK's don't get a normal setup suppression team because it's part of their design.
Same way as nids don't have a setup suppression teams, etc.

[Aertes]

GK's don't get a normal setup suppression team because it's part of their design.
Same way as nids don't have a setup suppression teams

Tiranids have a no-set-up supression team: the Warriors with the snaring cannon (I don't know the name in english, its "Cañón Enredadera" in Spanish). It is a low rate-of-fire supression weapon without set-up time, pretty much more useful than Purgators as supression team.

All races in the game have a mid-long range supression weapon except Grey Knights. Despite their superior melee capacities, I think this makes them vulnerable to melee attackers, specially if they come in hordes.

[Dark Riku]

Tiranids have a no-set-up supression team: the Warriors with the snaring cannon (I don't know the name in english, its "Cañón Enredadera" in Spanish). It is a low rate-of-fire supression weapon without set-up time, pretty much more useful than Purgators as supression team.

We all know what the barbed strangler on warriors does. It was a mere example.
It also doesn't snare but suppresses and can miss moving targets.
It's still not a normal setup suppression team as what most other races have.

I'll repeat myself: The purgation squad's ability SNARES in an AoE! On top of that, they are flamers too, so they melt light infantry if left unchecked for seconds and can be used for genbashing as well.

[Aertes]

But its a bit frustrating needing to activate an ability to supress enemies, a thing that all other races do passively and with noticeable longer range. Specially when I have to keep my attention on my Strike Squads to toggle to melee combat because they are less competent than normal marines at ranged combat.

[Dark Riku]

"It's frustrating" to you personally isn't an argument.
Imagine actually having to micro your units in this micro-oriented game :O
Also, if you don't micro your setup suppression teams, players can just draw fire with a unit in (heavy) cover and move in with another if you don't re-target.

Setup suppression teams also can't do much against suppression immune units,
unlike the purgations who snare them in place.

[Forestradio]

I hit the purgation snare vs every model of Ace of Sword's unupgraded hormagaunts, and you know what they did?

tanked it, ignored it, jumped on the purgs, and forced them off.

It's horrible vs any squad with a passive leap, be it jump units, warriors, etc

Setup suppression teams also can't do much against suppression immune units, unlike the purgations who snare them in place.

That only applies to non suppressible heroes in t1, and flamers do pitiful damage to them in general.

[Barrogh]

...a thing that all other races do passively and with noticeable longer range.

They also almost always require setup, vulnerable to flanking and are generally squishier and more cumbersome than purgators.
I, for one, find it fine that we have a new race that doesn't carbon-copy some to-go stuff most others have and tries to find a spot in the game. IMHO that's how it should be. Streamlining can be applied when we're out of other options.

[HandSome SoddiNg]

GL ST/purifiers/GKi furious intervention ,COA and Purgs? They don't have much melee counters like SM. But, SS energy burst is one means of CC vs Melee-oriented and jump squads. Normally you Really need the BC support alongside your fellow GKI/Purif to ensure their survival on the battlefield . Gki/Purifiers reliant on WATH/MB/COA to win engagements ,use Dark-exo to change the tide of outcomes . Else, get FWS to shield them entirely ,it will immensely help

[Element]

I tend to actually do fine against melee units... are you using the Nemesis Force Sword on your commander, it really does make a difference? How are you setting up engagements, are you dictating the pace of the battle or is your opponent? do you buy grenades on your storm troopers when your opponent takes up jump units to knock them back if they try and jump you first? There is usually something you can do in almost all cases.. getting outplayed is another thing entirely

@radio
get a nade launcher henchmen squad and knock them back then

[Forestradio]

That causes quite the problems vs powerful melee single entities, who take almost no damage from grenade launchers.

It's different in 3v3s where triple IST with nades into a dread is a common and very effective strategy. It becomes much more of a challenge in 1v1 when your opponent has an angry bitz warboss and a painboy

[Element]

@Radio the Forest
Specifying that you were playing 1v1 is some useful information... moving on though when playing gk in 1v1s you want to control the center as much as possible. If you can get more engagements where you can utilize your units all together than it becomes much each easier to try and counter melee units. GK work best in unison of one another as opposed to alone like that of for say eldar which loves hit and run tactics. Obviously you can't always keep the engagements in the middle but that should be your goal when playing them. Utilize your stormtroopers to acess the sides and allow your strikes to and brother captain to control the middle and boundaries of the middle to keep them from having to travel so far so as not to be so late for engagements.

[Ace of Swords]

Doesn't matter what game mode, giving up the single target damage for the greande barrage, unless you are specifly looking anti-blob damage & abilities is pointless, also the GK strats vs melee are quite straight foward, you focus the melee with your stuff, then you finish it off in melee with the Strike squad(s) + we are the hammer, and pretty much nothing can beat you.