Grey Knight Librarian's Smite

[crazyman64335]

space marines have nothing "OP"

are people even trying to make balance suggestions anymore? or are all the SM fanboys just not appreciative of their buffs / changes?

[Bahamut]

One thing is strong comboes and powerful abilities, another one is OP stuff. SM are very freaking good atm, but there's nothing i'd consider OP about the SM roster

kinetic shot + DA nade combo is very strong but it's not OP
SM intrinsic synergy and ungodly amounts of KBs and disruption abilities are really powerful but not OP
Vomit increasing damage taken by 20% and warpath giving 15% melee damage is OP

[Torpid]

To be fair I think Tex's ork bias is well known, and well exhibited.

I don't recall any recent posts off the top of my head, but just for the sheer absurdity of it I would like to recall a time in which I read, on gamereplays, Tex arguing the point that the weirdboy's warp vomit shouldn't have a minimum range. It was just baffling. In hindsight it is these sort of strange ideas, along with people with high elos who seemed to think the PC's globals were perfectly balanced that gives the impression of the "old community" being a bunch of noobs. It seems in retrospect though that their micro made up for what they lacked in macro and at least they still tried stuff, everyone these days seems to be stuck doing the same build vs everything when really you need different BOs for every hero you fight against, or at least a different playstyle even if the BO is the same. Alas, I'm ranting now...

"as long as GU's and Scouts can spike grenades on my feet, I will not support a minimum range to weirdboy vomit. Especially since my ever so useless stikkz have a MONSTEROUS minimum range and my stikkbombs only do 20% damage on retreat. Anyway yah, I agree it can be annoying when you try to tie up a weirdboy and then he pukes all over you, but just like any other "backbone" ability that a race has, if you changed it, you would need to adjust something else as well.

I like you have the new micro laid out, but ork is already the race that requires the most micro (some might disagree). So I would see this as very detrimental to ork play unless something positive was added elsewhere." - Tex in May 2011.

P.S Sorry for digging up something said... 3 years ago now, but I'm interesting in what Tex would have to say about them from hindsight's perspective. Orks being the most micro-intensive race is certainly an interesting point.

[Torpid]

SM intrinsic synergy and ungodly amounts of KBs and disruption abilities are really powerful but not OP

this, and consequently ASM in general, especially with Apo support is very OP.

The TM's signum armour is overpowered and in general the synergy between turrets/sterns/preds/devs and the libby while playing as the TM is OP.

ASM alone are OP on some maps/MUs, as are scout snipers with their tremendous versatility (since you don't NEED snipers, you just get default scouts as a capping unit and abuse snipers if you need to).

[crazyman64335]

i was actually going to mention something about asm's

imagine if raptors had a double jump right out of the gate, imagine the rage

not to mention inspiration buffs stacking to crazy (no pun intended) amounts of damage is something that could be considered OP on paper.

as for the weirdboy i still can't believe people have problems with him, when you see the weirdboy running at you wtf are you thinking? of course he's going to use warp vomit!!

[PhatE]

Fear and I have done quite a few games of GK vs X. Now I wouldn't consider myself a master of all races but of the ones I had played against him I did find the GK librarian smite alright. It wasn't super strong but it was worth using against a variety of units.

Whilst I want to stay on topic, that being exclusively on the smite, I will say that this dude with the vindicare assassin is/was/will be pretty awesome. Being able to 1 shot a razorback (without the armour upgrade that is) on rear armour is really decent.

If I'm not mistaken that's more than a las cannon since it needs 2 or is it just 3 since it has a sliver of health left. At least visually it looks that way since I haven't really looked into the exact numbers. I'm sure it's not hard but I'm super lazy at the current time.

What does the weirdboy have anything to do with what the topic is about

[Caeltos]

not to mention inspiration buffs stacking to crazy (no pun intended) amounts of damage is something that could be considered OP on paper.

The thing is, all those are subtle and not noticeable very easily. Whereas most post you'll gather from "OP" ability/units are visually presented in their ability or in-game value statistics.

The subtle ones will be cooldown, energy costs and staggering buffs. Staggering buffs are usually swayed away aside due to not realising there was a magntitude of buffs involved in the process. Whereas for the GK's one are more prime and explained already in the process that they're a very ability dependant faction. The creative minds will utilize this to their advantage and find things that are intentionally designed to work this way, to find their pay-off value abilities.

If it's too much, that's up for debate. But considering Vindicare Assassin/Librarian synergy was abit of a up-for grabs if they were to be compatible with one another, I find that more of an interesting scenario that I'd like to play out, hench why it's compatible in the first place. If it becomes a "thing" and it becomes very obnoxious and anti-fun to play against, then it's something that needs be propertly addressed. (So many ways to change things, so much to exppperimmeent)

To be fair I think Tex's ork bias is well known, and well exhibited.

No, if we were to look for someone who was extremely bias, we'd look at Nullist. He was even plaguing the CoH2 scene with his extreme little care for actual gameplay, and more of his ongoing rants about his faction on the forums. I think even the CoH2 community got fed up with him, much alike the DoW2 one at one point.

Tex provides good points to his arguements in the long run. Everyone can seem bias at first glance in their a very short statement they make. Hench why in conclussive even this large project had multiple changes for all corresponding factions. It wasn't a matter of changing one thing for one faction, it was about changing it across the board. We've still got the old cookie-cutter builds, but we've opened up alternatives that allow for more diverse playstyles that wouldnt' be feasible in the previous retail gameplay.

For ex. Sure, I don't want to see "JUST" the Warp Vomit get a minimum cast, I'd like appriciation on the units I find lackluster in performance in return, so I can find alternatives to work alongside with that unit as well. It's tweaking in general to a faction, not flat-out nerfs/buffs. Which is important to finding a balance in general for any faction. It's better to hear someone out on their grand scheme of things to get an understanding of their understanding on the game balance, rather than judge them as whole from just a single balance concern.

[Forestradio]

Not sure if GK libby thread or random shit thread.

[L0thar]

i was actually going to mention something about asm's

imagine if raptors had a double jump right out of the gate, imagine the rage

Good thing ASM can't do it either, right?

[Nurland]

Well ASM have wait 10 seconds (less if they start regening energy during the jump) before jumping again so in T1 that is basically a double jump. Raptors wait for half a minute before jumping again. That is three times as long btw.

[L0thar]

That is true. They can also double jump at level 2, unlike raptors which needs level 3.

However jump - wait 10s - jump is not something I would call double jump...

[Raffa]

For most people, double jump would qualify as being able to use 2 jumps in one engagement.

[Nurland]

For most people, double jump would qualify as being able to use 2 jumps in one engagement.

Pretty much like dis. Hence ASM are a "double jump unit" straight out of da gate.

[Tex]

LOL torpid.

You're hired! I am definitely going to get you to dig all of my trenches because you are fucking pro man.

I can't believe you took something 3 years old strait out of context without explaining what was going on around that post. That's about as unfair as it can get in terms of displaying what YOU want people to see.

Nvm, you should be a politician. Isn't that what they do?

/wtf

[Torpid]

Ugh, I wasn't there to participate in that thread so I'm not sure what the context was but all I can see in that thread is ork bias, ork bias, ork bias.

[Nurland]

Still don't think digging up a 3-year old post is very relevant.

Anyway ithis thread is not about Tex's alleged Ork bias. So let's leave that one out. Esp since this thread has pretty much nothing to do with Orks.

[Raffa]

I labbed this with Tex.

If it hits perfectly yes this combo will gib tics. It is very effective against Chaos in general too.

However it's fair to say we both think it's totally fine, it is nowhere near as good against any other race, and tbh it's good for the Libby to have 1 MU he's consistently good in.

[Torpid]

Funnily enough that's the same MU the SM libby is beastly in!

[Forestradio]

However it's fair to say we both think it's totally fine, it is nowhere near as good against any other race, and tbh it's good for the Libby to have 1 MU he's consistently good in.

I would say that the GK libby can also shine vs nids, casting shrouding on purifiers to get those crucial synapse bombs, especially if there are genestealers around (and if there are genestealers around, you need the synapse bombs).

And I guess the Shrouding upgrade will compete with the Might of Titan one next patch, depending if you want to buff a single unit or make your GK melee forces that much scarier with +10 melee skill that will stack with mind blades.

With the nerf to the GK dread's AV potential however, I would expect to see more GK libbys in the future.

[Tex]

I'm expecting to see far more rhinos actually.

Libby requires micro, and if it requires micro, lots of people automatically think its UP lol.

[Torpid]

Yep, there will be way way more rhinos. The main problem with rhinos now is that they have such a huge build time since you likely won't have one from t1. Of course next patch you will have one in t1 because, well, they get guns in t1, so that issue is negated.

[Forestradio]

Well every part of GK t2 except for the dread, which is getting massively nerfed, is getting either directly or indirectly buffed.

Might of Titan buff indirectly buffs purifiers, VA passive infiltration, and ofc the rhino gunner.

So I think that libby+purge+lasrhino will be a lot more commonly seen than the dread, which will lack the melta and the ability to linebreak and bleed lots of models like it used to.

[L0thar]

For most people, double jump would qualify as being able to use 2 jumps in one engagement.

Pretty much like dis. Hence ASM are a "double jump unit" straight out of da gate.

Fair enough, if you define it like that.

I would still argue that 10s is enough time for your opponent's counterinitiaion and crowd control unit to make sure your ASM won't be jumping again.

[Caeltos]

RIP Purge.

[Lost Son of Nikhel]

RIP Purge.

Are you going to remove Purge from the GK Librarian?

[Caeltos]

Yes.

[Forestradio]

NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

*sobs quietly in a corner*

[Torpid]

Well it makes sense compositionally. If the new GK libby is the dedicated melee counter that you want in t2 whereas the VA is the AV then he really shouldn't be contributing much to AV duties if at all.

[Forestradio]

So make Purge not work on vehicles?

Do you have details on the Sanctuary bubble then Caeltos? Duration, energy cost, range, cooldown, etc?

[Cheekie Monkie]

RIP Purge.

¿QUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?!

Is vanilla libby getting some other buff to compensate? I'd rather not pay so much just for a dedicated smitebot.

Do you have details on the Sanctuary bubble then Caeltos? Duration, energy cost, range, cooldown, etc?

Unless this is it?