Dawn of War Codex

I would like to understand the rationale behind why terminators cannot gain levels, as I wasn't around when Relic removed their levels. I mean, terminators are slow, cannot retreat, cannot fit in a Rhino/Razorback and have a long cooldown teleport. Shouldn't the player be rewarded for preserving his expensive T3 call-in super-heavy infantry?

The thing is that with levels they gain a huge amount of HP. And they would have no problems leveling because they shred infantry in melee (claws) and shoot it down easily (ranged ones). Nobz become quite OP with their levels and nobz can be more easily controlled. Terminators are truly terminators. They had already been buffed a bit with the improved health restoration.

6k hp clawminators with 280dps power melee + splash would be absurd to deal with. Ranged termies would also have 6k hp and hammer assault termies 7,2k

They don't really need it. They already scale with the rest of your army through inspiration. As your other units level up and do more damage the buff inspiration gives gets better and better.

I suppose leveling can be customed so it could maybe be possible to make them so that they gain only melee skill with levels (which would be fair imo).

Nurland wrote:I suppose leveling can be customed so it could maybe be possible to make them so that they gain only melee skill with levels (which would be fair imo).

That sounds good.

I also approve of this idea but honestly so late in the game terminators aren't going to catch up with already leveled to 4 melee squads and commanders who have even higher than that.

Probably they won't reach lvl 4 every time but it would make them more effective against late purchases (such as Nobz etc.)

Nurland wrote:I suppose leveling can be customed so it could maybe be possible to make them so that they gain only melee skill with levels (which would be fair imo).

This is a great idea.

I see levelling as a mini kill counter. If I see my units are levelled up, I know that I have purged many xenos and heretics in that game. It's also fun to watch the LEVEL UP! icon, as well as see the XP bar go up.

i agree. leveling up doesnt nececerally mean they have to get health and damage and all that, i think a melee skill increase per level would be nice, it would mean that termies atleast have a chance vs a horde of power melee for example.

saw assault termies from my oponent and instead of thinking "huh, i need Tzzetch on my CSM" im like "FUCK IT, QUADRUPLE BLOODLETTERS" they did not last long, a few special attacks might have helped them out there.

i feel like the hammernators damage could go up with the levels as well. they only do 7 dps more that regular models in melee and for some time there was an even further debuff in the changelog for 2.3 to 40 dps. i feel like they dont really kill anything, they are not even good at countering verhicles. i'm always underwhelmed when their hammers hit. paladins are more like it at doing damage

M4573R_CH13f wrote:i feel like the hammernators damage could go up with the levels as well. they only do 7 dps more that regular models in melee and for some time there was an even further debuff in the changelog for 2.3 to 40 dps. i feel like they dont really kill anything, they are not even good at countering verhicles. i'm always underwhelmed when their hammers hit. paladins are more like it at doing damage

the hammernators have more health than paladins, and only do 10 less damage per hit. and they can upgrade to lightning claws which paladins can not. hammernators without lighting claws also have silly health regen for terminators. also, normal terminators do not have melee resistance aura, assault terminators do.

heavy melee is never going to be a very good vehicle counter on its own, unless it combined with a snare. this could be said of pretty much any AV.

if you want your termies to shread infantry, give them lighting claws, if you want to PRESSURE but not KILL vehicles keep them with the hammers.

your proposed changes aren't exactly justified because of this. if you're vs a load of heavy infantry, give them lightning claws. hammers + snare is a really good tank killer if you can teleport on rear armour, however not as good vs infantry just like pretty much all other heavy melee units in the game. if you bought assault termies vs someone with 5 GM squads all with plasma guns for example, then you made the wrong call with buying assault termies, simple as that.

What Ven said, although it does strike me as odd that the ranged terminator variants lack melee resistance when every other unit in the space marine roster now does except the non-walker vehicles.

Torpid wrote:What Ven said, although it does strike me as odd that the ranged terminator variants lack melee resistance when every other unit in the space marine roster now does except the non-walker vehicles.

Something to look at? Or fine as is?

Atlas wrote:

Torpid wrote:What Ven said, although it does strike me as odd that the ranged terminator variants lack melee resistance when every other unit in the space marine roster now does except the non-walker vehicles.

Something to look at? Or fine as is?

i think it's fine as is personally. ranged termies do a load of ranged damage. they need to atleast have some kind of weakness/disadvantage imo. i think their respectable heavy melee damage is enough to deter a lot of squads from just tying them up.

however that being said. Out-of-the-gate Chaos Terminators DO have melee resist. very odd. i guess maybe its because of their lower HP ceiling for a terminator.

Ranged Chaos Termies shouldn't have melee resist.

although it does strike me as odd that the ranged terminator variants lack melee resistance when every other unit in the space marine roster now does except the non-walker vehicles.

Even before the release of the patch I knew that havocs with this aura would be very hard to deal with using a jump unit. So here I have no doubt - they should lose it and regain with their instantaneous suppression. In the case with devastators it is still debatable and I haven't concluded anything yet. I proposed maybe an year ago melee resistance aura for ranged terminators. Since then I've changed my mind. So have you, it seems. Though I think that this matter is controversial and definitely worthy of discussions.