Dawn of War Codex

Is it me or Are IG Bunkers/Relays too good to be in T1 in 2v2/Team games

They have that much staying power and its oftenly Sucidal to charge against a Relay/Med bunker with an Army camping there. if you decide to push. That includes a Turret defending the relay. Its Almost impossible to push in T1 ,Not even a guarantee Success if you flank an Alternative route. The Relay team will have the Advantage of Map control . However,Bunkers can still be stolen & Sabotaged .

Can The Relay/IG bunker be Accessible in T2 instead of T1?

They are way too powerful in 1v1s too (at least relay is) SM can just retreat to it when the engagment isn't in his favor and he won't lose any map control, but in teamgames, you can ignore it till t2 (if the enemy is so dumb and won't attack your powerfarm)

I cant really remember the last time I bought a relay in a 1v1. But in team games, especially on argus or something where 2 players usually go to the top then the relay does become very very powerful. In 1v1s I feel not so much, since the health regen of the relay itself is pretty modest

ThongSong wrote:In 1v1s I feel not so much, since the health regen of the relay itself is pretty modest

The health regen is ok but the main draw is the fact that you can retreat with very little penalty. And reinforce. I've seen the beacon used to great effect in 1v1.

If bunkers/beacons are deemed too OP in team games, one solution could be to make them not function on teammates. Not sure if this could be modded easily or not.

the main draw is the fact that you can retreat with very little penalty.

Every time they retreat you gain ground and push them back. I think this mechanic is fine.

Sub_Zero wrote:

the main draw is the fact that you can retreat with very little penalty.

Every time they retreat you gain ground and push them back. I think this mechanic is fine.

If you force them off from your vp, they just retreat to mid and are back soon

its pretty noticeable on the some of the more poorly designed maps like biffy where you can set up shop right in-front of the opponents base fairly easy . lot of the new maps are like that though

I have massive problems with bunkers, but a large part of it this is lack of knowledge. So, some open questions to you IG experts out there!

When I force IG off and a bunker is sitting there, how do I destroy it? Many of my squads only want to walk inside of it, and I don't know how to force them to attack it.

Can IG bunkers both be upgrade to repair/heal, AND have the explosive trap?

I believe the explosive trap is actually a bomb laying outside the bunker that can be detected and destroyed. But I've had a game recently where I got a detector up, killed the bomb, then went inside only to die. What gives?

What damage types hurt bunkers best? Are they normal buildings, or do they have their own damage type?

Do bunkers have any other special rules that normal garrison doesn't (besides the IG upgrades).

If there is a heal/repair bunker that the IG has abandoned, what can I do to turn off the aura besides destroy it? Does it "flip" team after going inside it once?

Thanks!

When I force IG off and a bunker is sitting there, how do I destroy it? Many of my squads only want to walk inside of it, and I don't know how to force them to attack it.

Target it with squads that cannot walk in or ground target with arty, so yeah, only a few units in T1 can do that.

Do bunkers have any other special rules that normal garrison doesn't (besides the IG upgrades).

If there is a heal/repair bunker that the IG has abandoned, what can I do to turn off the aura besides destroy it? Does it "flip" team after going inside it once?

No, the rep/healing/reinforce aura will be applied to your and your team instead of the guy/team that dropped it still they re-enter it.

Relay beacons don't only have advantages. They can easily become a deathtrap too.
The game is balanced around 1v1. So nerfing them wouldn't make much sense to me.
They can be dealt with just fine in team games from my experience.

Cyris wrote:When I force IG off and a bunker is sitting there, how do I destroy it?

Use attack ground. This is only possible with some weapons though.

Cyris wrote:Can IG bunkers both be upgrade to repair/heal, AND have the explosive trap?

Repair and heal are exclusive to one another. Explosives can always be purchased.

Cyris wrote:I believe the explosive trap is actually a bomb laying outside the bunker that can be detected and destroyed. But I've had a game recently where I got a detector up, killed the bomb, then went inside only to die. What gives?

It has multiple bombs on the side and can be detonated to hurt units nearby too.

Cyris wrote:What damage types hurt bunkers best?

I think plasma_cannon_pvp is probably the best dmg type against it.

Cyris wrote:Do bunkers have any other special rules that normal garrison doesn't.

Not that I know of.

Cyris wrote:If there is a heal/repair bunker that the IG has abandoned, what can I do to turn off the aura besides destroy it? Does it "flip" team after going inside it?

If you take it over the aura will work for you and your allies.

Cyris wrote:Thanks!

No problem!

When I force IG off and a bunker is sitting there, how do I destroy it? Many of my squads only want to walk inside of it, and I don't know how to force them to attack it.

You need some form of Artillery, like a PlasmaCannon for example, to ground-target it.
Or have a "big" unit, like Terminators, Ogryns, Walkers etc beat it up.

Can IG bunkers both be upgrade to repair/heal, AND have the explosive trap?

A Bunker can only have the repair OR the reinforce/heal aura.

But additionally to that the explsovie trap.

What damage types hurt bunkers best? Are they normal buildings, or do they have their own damage type?

Any form of Anti Vehicle Weapon I'd say.
Stuff like LasCannons should take down a Bunker in I'd guess 3 shots. .?.

Do bunkers have any other special rules that normal garrison doesn't (besides the IG upgrades).

They can be repaired, I guess.

If there is a heal/repair bunker that the IG has abandoned, what can I do to turn off the aura besides destroy it? Does it "flip" team after going inside it once?

Steal it.
If the Guard Player hasnt upgraded it yet you can actually do it, once you taken controll of it.
Atleast the repair and heal upgrade.

Can't you use force melee and the attack command (i.e. press 'a' then click the bunker) to attack the bunker when nobody is in it? But even if you can, regular ranged fire and melee will do shit damage to buildings. OTOH, anything that does good damage to vehicles will do a decent job of destroying buildings. Probably the best ability to use is a tankbusta barrage.

The heal rate on med bunkers is super high and it's usable even with low model squads. I've left a 4/4 ogryn squad with 20 or 30% HP left next to a bunker for 40 seconds or so and had them at full health. Obviously my recollection on the numbers is a little hazy but I distinctly remember being very impressed.

Using it in tier 1 though... bunkers require red and req to place, plus some more req and 30 power to upgrade to a med bunker. That's a very significant investment in tier 1, especially for a static emplacement, and will result in a weaker field presence if you can draw them away from the bunker.

PS the booby trap "upgrade" requires power, too. 20 or so?

I'll just add that stealing it can work just fine even if they have planted explosives. Your opponent won't necessarily click the button in time if he's distracted and you pop your unit in and then out, plus oftentimes he won't want to detonate if he thinks he can retake it. Finally, even if your capturing squad gets gibbed it can be a worthwhile trade - 30 power for med/repair upgrade, plus 20 for the boobytraps, plus the req and red invested into the bunker... sure, I'll trade a low level commander at 250 req for that. Even better if I can get a teammate to revive me.

Bunkers trapped with explosives do explode by themselves. There is nothing to click.

This was changed in elite I believe as no longer do the bunkers instantly blow up and instead various IEDs are placed around the bunker which can actually be detected and shot...

Bunkers trapped with explosives do explode by themselves. There is nothing to click.

That is plain wrong. You have to click on the thing to trigger the explosion. Just like you do with the improvised explosive of catachan devils.

Thanks all! It's been very frustrating facing these things because of how infrequently I see them, which means the few times I do I am un-aware of appropriate counters. It's a bit frustrating to learn that I indeed have no ability to destroy them in T1, but learning that I can claim their benefits by going inside makes up for a lot of this!

On a similar note, what armor type does the multi-laser and heavy turret have? In retail I see they have "ig_turret" and vehicle respectively, but I've lost track if this is still the case in ELITE. Learning heavies are vehicles is making a lot of sense to me, as to why I've been getting absolutely owned by them. I keep doing things like send sluggas or flamer tacs after them, assuming they are just high health las turrets and failing miserably. I'm guessing I need to focus on using things like las teams or venom broods.

Heavy Bolter, Tarantula and Mek turrets have "building armour" (?) so Flamers, or melee attacks are your best choice against them.

Not sure what armour type Multilas turrets have, but they are really squishy, everything should cut through them if they dont get repaired.

The heavy Russ Turrets have vehicle armour, so you are going to need AV, but they arent super though so light AV ( Plasmacannons, Autocannons, Powermelee) should be enough if they arent suppoert well.

Dont forget, they all cant fire at melee range, so "hugging" them is usefull even with Hormagaunts, TacticalMarines or Sluggas.

Orkfaeller wrote:Dont forget, they all cant fire at melee range, so "hugging" them is usefull even with Hormagaunts, TacticalMarines or Sluggas.

I'm pretty sure I've lot sluggas in melee too the heavy turret recently... I'll try this again next time I see it to double check!

Heavy turret has minimum range of 10 iirc. Or at least had in Retail.

Cyris wrote:what armor type does the multi-laser and heavy turret have? In retail I see they have "ig_turret" and vehicle respectively

The same.

Orkfaeller wrote:Heavy Bolter, Tarantula and Mek turrets have "building armour" (?) so Flamers, or melee attacks are your best choice against them.

"Building defence". Just "building" is the HQ armor type, which is not vulnerable to flamers.

Nurland wrote:Heavy turret has minimum range of 10 iirc. Or at least had in Retail.

Indeed, it cannot defend itself against melee attackers.

Plasma cannons kill bunkers in something like three shots. You can even do it through the fog of war through the magic of attack ground (once you know where the bunker is). Your pdevs should also get some nice XP from this (since it will be the only thing that damaged the bunker up until that point).

I'm also pretty sure that all vehicles can shoot bunkers, but can't confirm that.

There are some team maps where they become cheesy (cough cough typhon arena cough cough) but they're fine in 1v1.

Asmon wrote:Bunkers trapped with explosives do explode by themselves. There is nothing to click.

Imperial Guard Bunkers Statistics:
Cost: 100 requisition and 75 Imperial Guard Command to deploy and can be deployed in Tier 1.
Type: Building.
Hit Points: 500 (750 upgraded)
Upgrades: Repair Upgrade 100/25, Medical Upgrade 100/25 can only purchase one of these. Demolitions 100/15. Only the original owner can purchase demolitions, once upgraded they can be manually targeted to explode, like Catachan Improvised demo charge and Kommando Nob's bombs.
This building can be stolen or captured, it can also be repaired by any allied player.

Repair bunkers will repair vehicles a small amount of HP every 1,5 seconds or so.
Medical bunkers allows nearby friendly infantry to rapidly heal and reinforce.
(Source: Experience)

If you spot an enemy bunker with demolitions is it best to destroy it as quickly as possible.

I agree that these structures are very powerful and should be moved to Tier 2, likewise you don't have transports that can reinforce in tier 1, also the Plague Champion's Nurgle Shrine can also only be constructed in Tier 2

Shas'el Doran'ro wrote:Imperial Guard Bunkers Statistics:
Cost: 100 requisition and 75 Imperial Guard Command to deploy and can be deployed in Tier 1.
Type: Building.
Hit Points: 500 (750 upgraded)
Upgrades: Repair Upgrade 100/25, Medical Upgrade 100/25 can only purchase one of these. Demolitions 100/15. Only the original owner can purchase demolitions, once upgraded they can be manually targeted to explode, like Catachan Improvised demo charge and Kommando Nob's bombs.
This building can be stolen or captured, it can also be repaired by any allied player.

Repair bunkers will repair vehicles a small amount of HP every 1,5 seconds or so.
Medical bunkers allows nearby friendly infantry to rapidly heal and reinforce.
(Source: Experience)

If you spot an enemy bunker with demolitions is it best to destroy it as quickly as possible.

I agree that these structures are very powerful and should be moved to Tier 2, likewise you don't have transports that can reinforce in tier 1, also the Plague Champion's Nurgle Shrine can also only be constructed in Tier 2

If you move them to tier 2, what will the Inquis and LG use in replacement for their tier 1 globals? Especially the LG.

The bunker would stay T1, the rep/medic bunker would be locked until t2.

Bunkers are very static and cost quite enough to place down and upgrade.
I don't see any problem with them in T1. You can also steal them from your enemy.
What do you guys think of the way cheaper brood nest then?

Ace of Swords wrote:The bunker would stay T1, the rep/medic bunker would be locked until t2.

I think that's a bit useless though - what would be the point of putting them down T1 save for the building cover? I don't think I've ever seen anyone put down a bunker without going for the upgrade shortly after placing.

Commissar_Badass wrote:

Ace of Swords wrote:The bunker would stay T1, the rep/medic bunker would be locked until t2.

I think that's a bit useless though - what would be the point of putting them down T1 save for the building cover? I don't think I've ever seen anyone put down a bunker without going for the upgrade shortly after placing.

I saw an Indrid cast a while back where an IG player in a 3v3 put down a bunker right in front of an enemy Techmarine's turret to completely close off it's lines of fire.

Obviously this is uncommon, but still one of the most trolltastic moments ever.

Radio the Forest wrote:

Commissar_Badass wrote:

Ace of Swords wrote:The bunker would stay T1, the rep/medic bunker would be locked until t2.

I think that's a bit useless though - what would be the point of putting them down T1 save for the building cover? I don't think I've ever seen anyone put down a bunker without going for the upgrade shortly after placing.

I saw an Indrid cast a while back where an IG player in a 3v3 put down a bunker right in front of an enemy Techmarine's turret to completely close off it's lines of fire.

Obviously this is uncommon, but still one of the most trolltastic moments ever.

it is pretty amazing when that happens.