Dawn of War Codex

I've been using a dred build lately and It works quite nicely. it's normally x2 Dreds into assault cannons or 1 melta 1 AC.

its great fun to play with and wrecks certain groups. But if tanks or anything else is fielded against me I am relying on my team to take them down.

As with the dred build I enjoy playing the Techmarine for mark target, Although he has great AV he has to get close, and the chances are if he is running at a tank or dred, everything else will be shooting him down in seconds.

So I am then forced to use the Force Commander or a setup team, which is not a favorable choice for using 2 walkers.

My question to all of you really is, Why doesn't the space marine dred have a missile launcher? The melta sucks against anyone who can move tanks properly. Aside from the ork walker every other walker has a long range AV damage weapon.

Chaos has Missile launcher
Wraithlord has Brightlance
GK dred has Plasma cannon (Not anti av, but still does av damage)
Nids have a fex with a venom cannon

As for why not, I don't know, but as for the comparisons:

Chaos has Missile launcher -> chaos don't have melta bomb in T2
Wraithlord has Brightlance -> relatively low dps AV
GK dred has Plasma cannon -> short range, inaccurate on moving targets
Nids have a fex with a venom cannon -> T3

FiSH wrote:As for why not, I don't know, but as for the comparisons:

Chaos has Missile launcher -> chaos don't have melta bomb in T2
Wraithlord has Brightlance -> relatively low dps AV
GK dred has Plasma cannon -> short range, inaccurate on moving targets
Nids have a fex with a venom cannon -> T3

Chaos: You assume that I'll make an ASM. I don't, not against chaos. Also, plague marines?

Wraithlord brightlance damage is still a ranged damaged AV, It doesn't matter.

GK: What?

Nids: Venom brood, I was meerly talking about walkers.


Would giving the SM walker a charge with MM make it unbalanced? Or atleast +1/2 speed

Yes it would.

Tea Rex wrote:Would giving the SM walker a charge with MM make it unbalanced? Or atleast +1/2 speed

Yes, it most likely would. Giving it a charge or extra speed will give it too much utility.

As for why the SM dread is stuck with a short range AV weapon while the Chaos dread has the missile launcher: Relic ¯\(°_o)/¯ Just implementing things.
I don't see any reason why both dreads shouldn't get a copy paste from the other's AV weapon, with one of the many reskins out there, other than I think that would make the multi melta never bought again.

Would be nice to see some kind of ability for the multi-melta.

Biggest "Problem" of the MM in my opinion is that it scales really bad into late(r) game.

Its allready not THAT great in mid T2 imho, not bad but not that great either.

But from that point on allmost everything that comes out either out ranges, speeds, fights or shoots the MM-Dread.

A melee dread while suffering from a similiar has-to-get-close problem as the MM dread can atleast fight off leveled up or hight tier melee units.

The Assault Cannon can't scratch too many things in T3 but it still has GREAT range, disruption and no other walker in the game levels as fast as the AC Dread, in my experience.

The MM Dread is only really worth it imho if you allready have an army superiority that can tank/tie up the enemy army so that the MM Dread can waddle in unharmed, and just stand there blasting away.

I know the idea is that propably that the MM Dread should be great at chasing stuff, but its just not worth the risk.

A combination of short range, meh-melee capability and bad mobility.

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Misslelauncher for it is still not going to happen. I'd exchange the MM anyday for the Launcher as I think its the supperior weapon in pretty much every point that matters, but I'd guess it would make SM AV too powerful.

The multi melta is great, and actually better than the melee dred at line breaking/bleeding, the problem is that it shares the threats with the melee dreds, so it's tricky to use, bu it's extremely effective vs eldar/chaos/sm.

It would be nice to see weapons exchanges between the chaos/sm dred but overall it's already fine as it is.

Would be nice to see some kind of ability for the multi-melta.

Yeah, but what can it be?

Personally I consider the multi-melta as a very situational weapon. I use it when I need to chase an enemy's walker, also helps against transports. But it also explodes models of infantry squads. So forcing melee with this weapon is a viable tactic, have to be careful against av-threats though.

Yeah the Charge/+speed was literally something that went together in my mind for about 5 seconds. It did seem pretty unbalanced.

But would it be much work to stick the Missile launcher on the Space marine dred?

I don't think it would probably be that much work but the SM ML dread would be quite crazy... 20% more health (50% with DAoT) than the Chaos Dread to start out and the inspiration.

Edit: I will say that MoT Dread is one of the most powerful T2 walkers in the game. However it is quite fragile due to the relatively low HP pool especially later on the game.

Multi Melta Dread could be a situacional upgrade for the Dread, but it's effective against ALL units at short range, meanwhile the Chaos MoT Dread it's only effective against vehicles and big objectives. Yeah, of course, If you are lucky, you could hit blobed groups of infantry.

Lost Son of Nikhel wrote:Yeah, of course, If you are lucky, you could hit blobed groups of infantry.

It actually hits infantry pretty reliably due to the many shots it fires.
And it has an anti-infantry ability too ofcource.

In all my experience the MoT dread does higher damage to LI such as termagants and guardsmen than the autocannon dreadnought excluding its great ability.

t-dread is a great support unit against infantry, especially in combination with chaos ranged damage or any of the aoe damage globals/abilities. that suppression is brutal and the damage is decent.

if the MM-dread needs a buff the range could be increased and given a fall off as the loading tip currently incorrectly states.

Tea Rex wrote:I've been using a dred build lately and It works quite nicely. it's normally x2 Dreds into assault cannons or 1 melta 1 AC.

its great fun to play with and wrecks certain groups. But if tanks or anything else is fielded against me I am relying on my team to take them down.

As with the dred build I enjoy playing the Techmarine for mark target, Although he has great AV he has to get close, and the chances are if he is running at a tank or dred, everything else will be shooting him down in seconds.

So I am then forced to use the Force Commander or a setup team, which is not a favorable choice for using 2 walkers.

My question to all of you really is, Why doesn't the space marine dred have a missile launcher? The melta sucks against anyone who can move tanks properly. Aside from the ork walker every other walker has a long range AV damage weapon.

Chaos has Missile launcher
Wraithlord has Brightlance
GK dred has Plasma cannon (Not anti av, but still does av damage)
Nids have a fex with a venom cannon

Buy 2 multimelta or 1Whirlwind +whatever dread next time
and use AV infantry, there is more then FC and setup team
If you want missile launcher on SMdread Whirlwind gonna be removed for sure

If you want missile launcher on SMdread Whirlwind gonna be removed for sure

Nice .

Ace of Swords wrote:

If you want missile launcher on SMdread Whirlwind gonna be removed for sure

Nice .

Finally something useful would replace the whirlwind.

Dark Riku wrote:

Lost Son of Nikhel wrote:Yeah, of course, If you are lucky, you could hit blobed groups of infantry.

It actually hits infantry pretty reliably due to the many shots it fires.
And it has an anti-infantry ability too ofcource.

Reliably, with a 5% accuracy against small targets? They could it Guardsmen and other high model low hp squads because the AOE damage of the rockets, but hit Tacticals (for example) is really uncommon.

Still, the Frenzy Barrage ability is very good for the suppresion. The AOE damage is not bad, but a bit low but at least combine very well with the suppresion.

Well the autocannon dreadnought barely even hurts space marines and such. Ultimately the tzeentch dreadnought isn't a hard AV upgrade, it actually constitutes a raw 'upgrade' because even if it loses a tiny amount of damage vs space marines the ability more than compensates for it and with regards to most other races it actually gains dps and quite a lot at that all the while becoming better at countering vehicles or just deterring your opponent from getting them in the first place, which is probably what as chaos you want (so then you can field bloodletters instead of plague marines perhaps, or just retain your suppression).

Faultron wrote:and use AV infantry, there is more then FC and setup team
If you want missile launcher on SMdread Whirlwind gonna be removed for sure

I dont think too many SM players would shed a tear about that^^

boring. i'd rather the whirl wind got krak missiles than sm getting another dread upgrade.

Instead of saying this would imbalance things, I agree removing the whirlwind for this would be an amazing achievement for mankind..but

Why not just increase the HP on the Chaos dred? I hate chaos with a vengeance and think people who play them (Minus noisy) are terrible human beings.

But that dred does need a hp increase, even if its by 100 hp.

Back to the topic, I've not seen any real arguments about why the SM dred shouldn't get the Launcher

Back to the topic, I've not seen any real arguments about why the SM dred shouldn't get the Launcher

Well, argument would be the Chaos Dread already has one, and I think the last thing we wanna do is making Chaos and SM even more similar.

The inclution of Raptors, Powerfist/Lightningclaw Chaos Terminators and to some more limited extend the Chaos Land Raider allready blurred the lines between the two races too much IMHP

Orkfaeller wrote:The inclution of Raptors, Powerfist/Lightningclaw Chaos Terminators and to some more limited extend the Chaos Land Raider allready blurred the lines between the two races too much IMHP

All you are saying here it's fine that Chaos received stuff from the SM army but
it's not fine for SM's to get stuff from the Chaos army ~~

Dark Riku wrote:

Orkfaeller wrote:The inclution of Raptors, Powerfist/Lightningclaw Chaos Terminators and to some more limited extend the Chaos Land Raider allready blurred the lines between the two races too much IMHP

All you are saying here it's fine that Chaos received stuff from the SM army but
it's not fine for SM's to get stuff from the Chaos army ~~

No, I'm saying Chaos shouln't have gotten most of that stuff to begin with.

Look, I'm space marine player. I go for a Dreadnought pretty much every game and I absolutly hate the MM. I'd take the missle launcher ANY day over that thing.

But I dont want SMs and CSM to be just re-textured versions of oneanother.

Tea Rex wrote:Instead of saying this would imbalance things, I agree removing the whirlwind for this would be an amazing achievement for mankind..but

Why not just increase the HP on the Chaos dred? I hate chaos with a vengeance and think people who play them (Minus noisy) are terrible human beings.

But that dred does need a hp increase, even if its by 100 hp.

Back to the topic, I've not seen any real arguments about why the SM dred shouldn't get the Launcher

No, dont remove whirlwind, maybe it is not cost effective but not useless.My biggest problem with WW is that KB my own units as well:) + the AV missile CD is might too high (this should be used primarly for finishing off vehicles btw),but nothing else.

The reason is very simple SM has got missile launcher on tacticals, and whatever., but anyway SM doesnt lack AV, and multimelta is not shitbad(but it was in Retail) just different.Try support MM dread with your units (Melta bomb), or dont buy MM and use 2 rocket launcher tacs lulz.(btw melee dread is very strong and cheap:P)
You dont like FC and setup AV or u say it has bad synergy with MM dread?cos they works together.
And you were speaking primarly about teamgames, where Whirlwind performs better then 1v1 maybe, and doesnt matter rly if u have only MM dread or whatever unit, ur teammmates helps you out.

Faultron wrote:

Tea Rex wrote:Instead of saying this would imbalance things, I agree removing the whirlwind for this would be an amazing achievement for mankind..but

Why not just increase the HP on the Chaos dred? I hate chaos with a vengeance and think people who play them (Minus noisy) are terrible human beings.

But that dred does need a hp increase, even if its by 100 hp.

Back to the topic, I've not seen any real arguments about why the SM dred shouldn't get the Launcher

No, dont remove whirlwind, maybe it is not cost effective but not useless.My biggest problem with WW is that KB my own units as well:) but nothing else.

The reason is very simple SM has got missile launcher on tacticals, and whatever., but anyway SM doesnt lack AV, and multimelta is not shitbad(but it was in Retail) just different.Try support MM dread with your units (Melta bomb), or dont buy MM and use 2 rocket launcher tacs lulz.(btw melee dread is very strong and cheap:P)
You dont like FC and setup AV or u say it has bad synergy with MM dread?cos they works together.
And you were speaking primarly about teamgames, where Whirlwind performs better then 1v1 maybe, and doesnt matter rly if u have only MM dread or whatever unit, ur teammmates helps you out.

WW doesn'T doo friendly fire.

Whirwinds dont knock back allied stuff.

thats good then, i tought it was the WW