Grey Knight Dreadnought ranged weapons

[lolzarz]

I hope you all know that the Grey Knight Dreadnought gets to upgrade to an inferno cannon. I don't know if it's widely used (or at all), but I'd like to comment on it.

The Grey Knight Dreadnought's Inferno Cannon is incredibly weak for a upgrade that requires me to trade in my multi-melta. The Grey Knight Dreadnought with an inferno cannon is 580/140, while the Deff Dread with Burnaz 'n Bitz is 390/80. After said upgrades, the Deff Dread only has 250 health less and with slightly less DPS (3 heavy melee DPS and 2.5 flame DPS).

Can we buff the inferno cannon so that it's kind of competitive against the default multi-melta?

Also, the Plasma Cannon. While it's damage is actually OK (Plasma Cannon Devastator Squad in a Dreadnought), I think that the Dreadnought should be a large enough vehicle to be able to handle the plasma cannon on the move. Could that be done?

[Barrogh]

My reply isn't really constructive, but I have to point out that multimelta is going to get replaced by hyrricane bolter in the next patch.

This is probably only a minor concern when it comes to inferno canon though.

[Aertes]

Inferno Cannon seems a bit weird to me. What Grey Knights need is a bit more anti-vehicle power. I'd exchange it for a twin-linked Laser Cannon, specially now that they are about to loose the multimelta. Make them unable to fire it on the move (just like Plasma Cannon), and it should be fine I think

[Kvek]

They already have good av, they don't need more

[Forestradio]

As long as the Dreadnought retains the ability to upgrade to a multi-melta, it should be fine.

The inferno cannon is meh vs everything except IG, but with the improved GK ranged dps in the next patch, it will be more useful.

[Rataxas]

I hope you all know that the Grey Knight Dreadnought gets to upgrade to an inferno cannon. I don't know if it's widely used (or at all), but I'd like to comment on it.

The Grey Knight Dreadnought's Inferno Cannon is incredibly weak for a upgrade that requires me to trade in my multi-melta. The Grey Knight Dreadnought with an inferno cannon is 580/140, while the Deff Dread with Burnaz 'n Bitz is 390/80. After said upgrades, the Deff Dread only has 250 health less and with slightly less DPS (3 heavy melee DPS and 2.5 flame DPS).

Can we buff the inferno cannon so that it's kind of competitive against the default multi-melta?

Also, the Plasma Cannon. While it's damage is actually OK (Plasma Cannon Devastator Squad in a Dreadnought), I think that the Dreadnought should be a large enough vehicle to be able to handle the plasma cannon on the move. Could that be done?

no

[Dark Riku]

no

To what? Because the plasma cannon can be made to fire on the move as it was at the start. The range on the plasma cannon feels rather pathetic and moving makes it misfire :/

[lolzarz]

On the Inferno Cannon: it is an upgrade. I want to be able to equip it in the knowledge that it can eradicate any sort of light infantry. Sluggaz, Termagants, etc. It's not a puny flamer mounted on the wrist; it's a heavy weapon that removes some of my close combat capability. It's like the difference between a storm bolter and a heavy bolter.

On the Plasma Cannon: I would recommend 1 of 2 (I'd love both; may be too good though); make the plasma cannon a weapon that can fire on the move, or increase the range.

Grey Knights have an utter lack of artillery. Space Marines have Whirlwinds and Plasma Cannon Devastators. Orks have Stikkbommaz and Weirdboyz. Imperial Guard have artillery spotters and Manticores. Chaos has a blastmaster option on Noise Marines, which practically gives you a plasma cannon. Eldar have their D-Cannon (Yes, I know it's Tier 3, but it's still artillery). So I'd suggest greatly increasing the range on the plasma cannon and turning our Dreadnought into an artillery walker.

If an artillery vehicle that can defend itself adequately (maelstrom, melee, high health) is too overpowered, then I'd say to make the plasma cannon fire on the move, if it doesn't already. It's range isn't that high in the first place.

[Rataxas]

no

To what? Because the plasma cannon can be made to fire on the move as it was at the start. The range on the plasma cannon feels rather pathetic and moving makes it misfire :/

No... GK dreds are perfectly fine , dont belive me ? check yourself , in fight vs another dred in 1v1 combat what they do , khorne , ven , think maybe only SM dred with dark technology can win with GK dred.

So if you will change fire on the move you would probably make better accuracy , so act you will get great field arty with 1300 HP , cant be knocked back , suppres or you cant force it in melee combat... stupid as hell.

[Rataxas]

Grey Knights have an utter lack of artillery. Space Marines have Whirlwinds and Plasma Cannon Devastators. Orks have Stikkbommaz and Weirdboyz. Imperial Guard have artillery spotters and Manticores. Chaos has a blastmaster option on Noise Marines, which practically gives you a plasma cannon. Eldar have their D-Cannon (Yes, I know it's Tier 3, but it's still artillery). So I'd suggest greatly increasing the range on the plasma cannon and turning our Dreadnought into an artillery walker.

If an artillery vehicle that can defend itself adequately (maelstrom, melee, high health) is too overpowered, then I'd say to make the plasma cannon fire on the move, if it doesn't already. It's range isn't that high in the first place.

whirlwind - does not do dmg , well not so hugeeeeeeeeee and it has only 500 hp ? or 400 ? not 1300 and 110 heavy melee

plasma devs - you can suppres them , close combat them , throw nade , knock back them , and many other things.

sitkz - yes which cost around 24 waaagh to throw 8 nades ( 1 volley )

manticores - are easy to kill even inside the base , and ig is lack of other line breakers till T3.

spotters - are not problem at all , well havent tried 4 of them in 1 match but think even 4 ATS would not work.

noise marines - same as devs plasm.

D-canon - same as devs + noise mar + T3



GK got lack of everything , for me that race got no point to exist on way at is it right now. Some of their things are extermly strong and some very weak and poor.

[lolzarz]

no

To what? Because the plasma cannon can be made to fire on the move as it was at the start. The range on the plasma cannon feels rather pathetic and moving makes it misfire :/

No... GK dreds are perfectly fine , dont belive me ? check yourself , in fight vs another dred in 1v1 combat what they do , khorne , ven , think maybe only SM dred with dark technology can win with GK dred.

So if you will change fire on the move you would probably make better accuracy , so act you will get great field arty with 1300 HP , cant be knocked back , suppres or you cant force it in melee combat... stupid as hell.

You have heavy melee squads. USE THEM. Most of the heavy melee units have some way of getting into close combat and take no damage from artillery; terminators can teleport in, tyrant guard and ogryns can charge in, nobz have frenzy.

As to the walkers; seeing as you have a plasma cannon, it obviously precludes the close combat weapon upgrade. Also, seeing as you have an upgrade, it should be fair that the other dreadnought also gets one.

As a result, the Space Marine Dreadnought can either just get into the fight and smash your dreadnought to bits with better melee damage, or get the multi-melta; we all know how good that thing is. The Venerable Dreadnought is, obviously, a better version of the melee Space Marine Dreadnought.

The Chaos Dreadnought can just get a mark; Mark of Tzeentch gives a powerful missile launcher, while the Mark of Khorne turns it into the chaotic equivalent of a default Space Marine Dreadnought. Don't even mention Blood Rage.

The Wraithlord, while a bit trickier, can get a Brightlance, which does NOT diminish its close combat potential. As a result, it can both use its brightlance, which deals greater single target damage than your plasma cannon, and close in, where its sword deals more damage than your close combat weapon.

Carnifex can get Thornback which makes it incredibly durable and able to rip into you in close combat (was able to do so in first place), or it can get the venom cannon, which. like the brightlance, outguns your plasma cannon. Even after it gets the venom cannon, it STILL does more damage in close combat than you do.

Deff Dread, at half the price, is supposed to lose anyway. But with its upgrade, it can both deal significant damage and hold out for some time.

As a result, with the plasma cannon, the Grey Knight Dreadnought is only able to defeat the Deff Dread in close combat, which is indisputably the weakest walker.

[Torpid]

Yeah the GK dread severely overperforms in melee ith it's melta because for some reason it randomly fires it while in melee. Is that player controlled? If you hit 's' repeatedly during a fight ill it shoot then start meleeing again? Well, I dunno, but it makes it stupidly powerful and it can often solo an SM melee dread with it's melta.

[Ace of Swords]

gl killing a melee dred with melee squad when it has maelstorm and fist of the emperor without disabling it first lol.

Also the gk dred starts off with the melta(next patch with the hurricane) and that's extremely good by itself, for the rest with all the hp it has an all you can just make it melee and rape any other walker, especially when you have something like the bc and interceptors you have absolutely no excuse if you get hit by lascannons.

[lolzarz]

Grey Knights have an utter lack of artillery. Space Marines have Whirlwinds and Plasma Cannon Devastators. Orks have Stikkbommaz and Weirdboyz. Imperial Guard have artillery spotters and Manticores. Chaos has a blastmaster option on Noise Marines, which practically gives you a plasma cannon. Eldar have their D-Cannon (Yes, I know it's Tier 3, but it's still artillery). So I'd suggest greatly increasing the range on the plasma cannon and turning our Dreadnought into an artillery walker.

If an artillery vehicle that can defend itself adequately (maelstrom, melee, high health) is too overpowered, then I'd say to make the plasma cannon fire on the move, if it doesn't already. It's range isn't that high in the first place.

whirlwind - does not do dmg , well not so hugeeeeeeeeee and it has only 500 hp ? or 400 ? not 1300 and 110 heavy melee

plasma devs - you can suppres them , close combat them , throw nade , knock back them , and many other things.

sitkz - yes which cost around 24 waaagh to throw 8 nades ( 1 volley )

manticores - are easy to kill even inside the base , and ig is lack of other line breakers till T3.

spotters - are not problem at all , well havent tried 4 of them in 1 match but think even 4 ATS would not work.

noise marines - same as devs plasm.

D-canon - same as devs + noise mar + T3

GK got lack of everything , for me that race got no point to exist on way at is it right now. Some of their things are extermly strong and some very weak and poor.

On Space Marine artillery: Whirlwind has longer range, and can, as a result, stay further from the action. Plasma Cannon Devastators can, as infantry, hide behind cover and consequently take less damage. Also, good luck suppressing an artillery unit which can knockback.

On Imperial Guard Artillery: If I am not mistaken, the Manticore, like the Whirlwind, far outranges the plasma cannon, and can therefore stay away from attack. Also, both artillery units deal damage through abilities, which allows them to fire on the enemy, then retreat. The damage has been done.

On Ork Artillery: According to the Codex, each stikkbomma throws 2 grenades, at the cost of 2.5 red (not sure per member or as squad). Assuming it's per member, that gives 8 grenades for 10 red. That's just killing 4 guardsmen.

On Eldar Artillery: It outranges plasma cannons and comes with an ability.

On Chaos Artillery: Noise Marines deal even more knockback, because their projectile itself causes knockback while in travelling.

[lolzarz]

Torpid: I'm sure that is a bug, which, as a result, should be fixed and not be considered.

Ace of Swords: There's no Emperor's Fist for you, because you've got the Plasma Cannon. That was what the whole argument was about, whether it was possible to kill a plasma cannon dreadnought in close combat with stuff feasibly.

[David-CZ]

So if you will change fire on the move you would probably make better accuracy , so act you will get great field arty with 1300 HP , cant be knocked back , suppres or you cant force it in melee combat... stupid as hell.

Pretty much. The only thing I would change is it's range. To an artillery piece with such perks a range of </= 50 would be adequate imo.

[Aertes]

I just noticed a curious thing: one of the most popular GK dreadnought built in boardgame isn't present in the game: the so called psyfleman.

I'd suggest this one if a flamer dreadnought is still so needed:

- Give the GK dreadnought close combat an incinerator without the supressive ability.
- Substitude the inferno cannon option for a twin linked autocannon with psybolt ammunition option (blue effects?).

[Flash]

My post got eaten .

It would probably be best to wait and see how the gk playstyle changes with regards to upcoming patch.

But before that I would have said that if it was to be changed then this would work. Range needs to be increased to under that of a lascannon(so 50-60, normal las range is 65, normal pdev is 70, gk dred is currently 35). However the problem is that the dred counters all its counters that way more or less. It needs to lose the melee damage, allowing it to be tied up or countered. So the melee damage needs to drop to almost nil. Change the knife model portion to just a textured box and say that it is filled with "targeng equipment" or something. That might not be fluffy, but gameplay > fluff.

So this change allows the dred to punish blobs, intermediate ranged squads, intermediate ranges av, and charging melee skillunits with proper micro. This allows it to be ties up in melee/ countered by heavy melee, power melee, tanks, walkers, jump squads long range av.

It doesn't need fotm.

[Tex]

FOTM plasma cannon is a big no no. We had this before and it was massively overpowered. It's already been tested through and through.
A slight range increase would be much more appropriate.

I agree with the heavy flamer being garbage. I should think that giving it any more damage upfront would make it kill stuff a bit too quickly, so what I'm thinking is make this thing a really good suppressor! Why settle for having to combo it with stuff. Gives it a clear role when you sacrifice so much for some AI.

[Torpid]

I agree on making the heavy flamer suppress faster.

[Forestradio]

Also the gk dred starts off with the melta(next patch with the hurricane) and that's extremely good by itself, for the rest with all the hp it has an all you can just make it melee and rape any other walker, especially when you have something like the bc and interceptors you have absolutely no excuse if you get hit by lascannons.

qft

[Rataxas]

If an artillery vehicle that can defend itself adequately (maelstrom, melee, high health) is too overpowered, then I'd say to make the plasma cannon fire on the move, if it doesn't already. It's range isn't that high in the first place.

whirlwind - does not do dmg , well not so hugeeeeeeeeee and it has only 500 hp ? or 400 ? not 1300 and 110 heavy melee

plasma devs - you can suppres them , close combat them , throw nade , knock back them , and many other things.

sitkz - yes which cost around 24 waaagh to throw 8 nades ( 1 volley )

manticores - are easy to kill even inside the base , and ig is lack of other line breakers till T3.

spotters - are not problem at all , well havent tried 4 of them in 1 match but think even 4 ATS would not work.

noise marines - same as devs plasm.

D-canon - same as devs + noise mar + T3

GK got lack of everything , for me that race got no point to exist on way at is it right now. Some of their things are extermly strong and some very weak and poor.

On Space Marine artillery: Whirlwind has longer range, and can, as a result, stay further from the action. Plasma Cannon Devastators can, as infantry, hide behind cover and consequently take less damage. Also, good luck suppressing an artillery unit which can knockback.

On Imperial Guard Artillery: If I am not mistaken, the Manticore, like the Whirlwind, far outranges the plasma cannon, and can therefore stay away from attack. Also, both artillery units deal damage through abilities, which allows them to fire on the enemy, then retreat. The damage has been done.

On Ork Artillery: According to the Codex, each stikkbomma throws 2 grenades, at the cost of 2.5 red (not sure per member or as squad). Assuming it's per member, that gives 8 grenades for 10 red. That's just killing 4 guardsmen.

On Eldar Artillery: It outranges plasma cannons and comes with an ability.

On Chaos Artillery: Noise Marines deal even more knockback, because their projectile itself causes knockback while in travelling.

Someone has remove my replay so will say again for you so can be sure you gonna "hear it" ! : LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

I suggest you should start playing some games not only last stand maybe. And that you said about devs and green covers are just perfect... like wow i already feel myself +50 to morale and gonna fight better in next tourney like 1 and half of me.

What the fuk gives you a cover when someone throw nade on you like simple scouts or guardians ? Tell me WHAT ?

And what the hell are you talking about with those manticore / whirlwind.

[David-CZ]

I do agree with you Rataxas, but please, let's not be mean to each other.

[lolzarz]

So... you refuse to be civil. Fine. I'm not going to use my manners for you moron.

Scout grenades have 25 range. Your entire army has 38 range. WHY ARE THE MOTHERFUCKING SCOUTS NOT DEAD? WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY IN FUCKING GRENADE RANGE? WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU NOT KILLING THE SCOUTS WHEN YOU KNOW THEY'VE GOT FUCKING GRENADES? HOW IS IT NOT YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM TO DEFEND YOUR OWN FUCKING ARTILLERY?

Returning to civil mode.

The Grey Knight Dreadnought, if turned into an artillery piece will, believe it or not, be the least capable of escaping the enemy. Set-up teams can, obviously, retreat. Vehicular artillery, like Whirlwinds and manticores, usually outrange the plasma cannon, are faster than the dreadnought, or both. As a result, they stay further from the battle and are safer if the tide turns. Dreadnoughts are slow, and have shorter range than other artillery. But maybe David is correct. I guess sentinel missile range would be good.

[BaptismByLoli]

Can all of us please stick to civil mode?

Sent from my GT-S5830i using Tapatalk 2

[Rataxas]

So... you refuse to be civil. Fine. I'm not going to use my manners for you moron.

Scout grenades have 25 range. Your entire army has 38 range. WHY ARE THE MOTHERFUCKING SCOUTS NOT DEAD? WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY IN FUCKING GRENADE RANGE? WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU NOT KILLING THE SCOUTS WHEN YOU KNOW THEY'VE GOT FUCKING GRENADES? HOW IS IT NOT YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM TO DEFEND YOUR OWN FUCKING ARTILLERY?

Returning to civil mode.

The Grey Knight Dreadnought, if turned into an artillery piece will, believe it or not, be the least capable of escaping the enemy. Set-up teams can, obviously, retreat. Vehicular artillery, like Whirlwinds and manticores, usually outrange the plasma cannon, are faster than the dreadnought, or both. As a result, they stay further from the battle and are safer if the tide turns. Dreadnoughts are slow, and have shorter range than other artillery. But maybe David is correct. I guess sentinel missile range would be good.

And in your opinion there will be only single scouts squad heading to throw nade vs all army ? Im not going to explain you gameplay mechanics , there is no point if you are just lack of exp.

GK dred FOTM is worst idea ever , if not , why not do the same with wraithguards from eldar ? They can fire on the move as well.

[Nurland]

Imo GK Lulferno Dread could have an ability (like and AoE snare/suppression/damage or something). Or it could be made to suppress faster as was proposed by Tex and Torpid. Or maybe it could get Maelstrom also when equipped with Lulferno?

[Tex]

No need, Caeltos already changed exactly what I predicted in the patch notes.
-GK dread plasma cannon range increased (although he lowered the damage...)
-GK dread inferno cannon courage damage increased to 30.

Looks like this thread has done well

[Aertes]

I still am in the opinion that the GK Dreadnought should keep at least one anti-vehicle ranged weapon. The idea of Psybolt Autocannon sounded pretty well to me, but well...

[lolzarz]

He increased the range by... 3 units and he decreased damage by 1/7. I really was looking for somewhere around 45 range,